UK Versus US Wrap Up Show

[00:00:00] Must be nice, you know, living on Canal Street

[00:00:05] From Slightly Unbalanced we are Still Queer as Folk

[00:00:09] UK and US for this one episode

[00:00:13] I'm Patrick Randall and I'm at Dominguez

[00:00:15] Today we're going to be talking about UK vs US

[00:00:18] which series we think was the better of the two

[00:00:22] We've done 96 episodes between the US and UK shows so far

[00:00:26] and this is an episode that I've been looking forward to doing since 2017

[00:00:33] I think when we did our first really rough episode covering the US version

[00:00:38] This is the showdown our listeners have been looking for

[00:00:42] US vs UK

[00:00:45] And it's like, I still remember to this day

[00:00:48] when you came up with this idea of like wanting to do a podcast about this show

[00:00:52] We were at Big Bull downtown

[00:00:55] Yeah, I think we had like our second bottle of Chardonnay

[00:00:59] and we're like, yeah, let's just do it. Let's see what happens

[00:01:02] In Chardonnay?

[00:01:04] Yeah, there was some sort of white wine that we had in a, you know

[00:01:08] Classy girls

[00:01:10] You know, like we do in Big Bull

[00:01:13] And now it's like, you know, four years later

[00:01:17] And we don't eat in restaurants anymore

[00:01:19] We don't do that, no restaurants

[00:01:21] Don't get us wrong, we still drink

[00:01:23] As we speak

[00:01:26] We should have done it on account of how much boxed wine we've gone through doing this podcast

[00:01:31] Oh, that would have been a good step

[00:01:33] Yeah, that would have been really great to know

[00:01:35] Because trust me, believe if you go listen to those earlier episodes

[00:01:39] where we were bold enough to record, you know

[00:01:43] Two episodes

[00:01:46] You can tell when we've clearly gotten to like

[00:01:49] the tipping point of the boxed wine

[00:01:52] Yeah, I think that would be the even numbered episodes, right?

[00:01:56] Yes, yeah

[00:01:57] We do them too at a time

[00:01:59] Yeah, we're like, oh, we can do this

[00:02:00] We can knock out two episodes whenever we record

[00:02:03] Woo

[00:02:04] We stay and then we kind of like meander

[00:02:07] and crack up

[00:02:08] and don't make a whole lot of sense in some parts

[00:02:12] Yeah, I like to tell people that if you really are into, like us

[00:02:16] skip season one

[00:02:18] We're clearly a train wreck in season one of the US version

[00:02:22] We get better though

[00:02:24] I look at the stats for downloads of the different episodes

[00:02:27] and season one, episode one being the first

[00:02:30] always gets just a ton of downloads

[00:02:32] in the next episode

[00:02:34] not so many after that

[00:02:37] I think people listen to it and go, oh

[00:02:39] Well, hopefully not

[00:02:40] I think some of our reviews have been favorable

[00:02:43] to those who held out and gave us that chance

[00:02:46] and

[00:02:48] but yeah, we

[00:02:50] I think we grew

[00:02:52] So for this episode, I thought we would do a few games

[00:02:55] First up is what I'm calling this or that quickfire

[00:02:58] where Matt and I will have to make a snap call

[00:03:01] on the UK versus the US show

[00:03:03] and different elements from them

[00:03:05] Then we're gonna play who would you do

[00:03:08] where we decide which character we're more interested in fucking

[00:03:12] I'm so excited for that one

[00:03:14] Next up after that is Stuart versus Brian

[00:03:17] where Matt has to guess who set a certain quote

[00:03:20] and then finally we'll do our usual version of a pub quiz

[00:03:24] where I ask Matt 15 questions about Queersfolk UK

[00:03:27] and see what he comes up with

[00:03:29] and if he was paying attention

[00:03:31] to the 10 hours of microphone time

[00:03:35] that he gave us this season

[00:03:37] that time I was paying attention

[00:03:39] and then you throw these questions at me

[00:03:41] where I haven't watched season one, episode one

[00:03:45] in four years

[00:03:49] but I'm sure I'm gonna get something right

[00:03:51] Well, these are all UK questions

[00:03:53] so I think you got a good sporting chance on these

[00:03:55] Sure

[00:03:56] Okay, so I've got 15 this or that

[00:03:58] UK versus US

[00:04:00] When I read them off, you must immediately answer

[00:04:02] which one you thought was overall better

[00:04:05] When we get to the end, we'll compare our scores

[00:04:07] and see who was the statistical winner

[00:04:10] Okay

[00:04:11] So let me give you a sample first

[00:04:12] just to make sure you understand the game

[00:04:13] Alright

[00:04:14] I'll say the UK bit first and then the US one

[00:04:16] so I'll say something like Jeep or Corvette

[00:04:19] and then you give your answer

[00:04:20] No comments, just your answer

[00:04:22] Quickfire style

[00:04:23] Ready?

[00:04:24] Got it, let's do it

[00:04:25] Okay

[00:04:31] Stuart Allen Jones or Brian Kinney

[00:04:33] Stuart

[00:04:34] Vince Tyler or Michael Novotny-Bruckner

[00:04:36] Vince

[00:04:37] Nathan Maloney or Justin Taylor

[00:04:39] Phillip Delaney or Ted Schmidt

[00:04:41] Ted

[00:04:42] Alexander Perry or Emmett Honeycutt

[00:04:44] Emmett

[00:04:45] Janice Maloney or Jennifer Taylor

[00:04:47] Jennifer

[00:04:48] Hazel Tyler or Debbie Novotny

[00:04:50] Hazel

[00:04:51] Donna or Daphne

[00:04:52] Donna

[00:04:53] Lisa and Romy or Melanie and Lindsay

[00:04:55] Lisa and Romy

[00:04:56] Canal Street or Fake Pittsburgh Gaber Hood

[00:04:59] Canal Street

[00:05:01] Daz Collinson or Ethan Gold

[00:05:03] Ethan Gold

[00:05:05] Cameron Roberts or Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:07] DDC, Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:09] Nobody

[00:05:10] or Ben Buckner

[00:05:11] Ben

[00:05:12] Bernard or Uncle Vic

[00:05:14] Uncle Vic

[00:05:15] Christian Hobbs

[00:05:16] or Chris Hobbs

[00:05:17] Yes

[00:05:21] The UK sucks or the US sucks

[00:05:23] UK

[00:05:25] Okay, so for me

[00:05:27] I had picked

[00:05:28] Stuart Allen Jones

[00:05:29] Vince Tyler

[00:05:30] Nathan Maloney

[00:05:31] Ted Schmidt

[00:05:32] Emmett Honeycutt

[00:05:33] Jennifer Taylor

[00:05:34] Hazel Tyler

[00:05:35] Donna

[00:05:36] Romy

[00:05:37] Canal Street

[00:05:38] Ethan Gold

[00:05:39] Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:40] Nobody

[00:05:41] Uncle Vic

[00:05:42] Christian Hobbs

[00:05:43] and UK sucks

[00:05:44] So that gave me

[00:05:46] UK 10

[00:05:48] US 5

[00:05:50] and you had

[00:05:52] Christian Hobbs and Chris Hobbs

[00:05:53] Oh yeah

[00:05:54] So do I give one for each?

[00:05:55] Yeah, let's go ahead and do that

[00:05:56] Okay

[00:05:57] UK 7

[00:05:58] US 9

[00:06:00] You like the US series better

[00:06:02] Ouch

[00:06:03] I won't say I like the series better

[00:06:05] I liked individual parts better

[00:06:07] But I knew it was going to be close

[00:06:09] I knew it was going to be close

[00:06:11] So

[00:06:12] I had Stuart Allen Jones as a winner

[00:06:14] because I found his character

[00:06:16] just to be more believable

[00:06:18] He wasn't portrayed as

[00:06:20] a magical uber gay

[00:06:22] and he really didn't do anything

[00:06:24] that would make me think he is

[00:06:26] a deplorable person

[00:06:28] except for that

[00:06:29] weird firebombing thing

[00:06:30] of Alexander's mother's car

[00:06:32] Why did you pick Stuart?

[00:06:33] For a lot of the reasons that you picked Stuart

[00:06:35] I loved the fact that he was

[00:06:37] much more

[00:06:38] a character that was on

[00:06:39] somewhat of a level playing field

[00:06:41] So then I believed a lot of the friendships

[00:06:43] I believed the friendships a lot more

[00:06:45] There wasn't this putting him on a pedestal

[00:06:47] in a lot of ways

[00:06:49] It was fun to watch him

[00:06:51] turn on the charm

[00:06:52] that I thought was

[00:06:53] a lot more believable

[00:06:54] Then I understood why people would fall in love with him

[00:06:57] or would want to sleep with him

[00:06:59] He could, in fact

[00:07:01] charm the pants off people

[00:07:03] Whereas I thought Brian was such a turn off

[00:07:05] and such an egomaniac

[00:07:07] Why would anyone want to be like

[00:07:09] oh yeah then please do me

[00:07:11] No thank you

[00:07:12] Please do me

[00:07:14] We'd both picked Vince Tyler

[00:07:16] So I thought that

[00:07:17] Vince absolutely trounces

[00:07:19] Michael Nabotny

[00:07:20] If you look at

[00:07:21] the whole US series

[00:07:23] Michael comes off

[00:07:24] a bit schizophrenic

[00:07:26] Or I guess at best

[00:07:28] multiple personalities

[00:07:29] He was just written so poorly that he

[00:07:31] became unbelievable as

[00:07:33] the baby uber gay

[00:07:35] Vince just endeared himself to us

[00:07:37] right from the start

[00:07:38] We were really rooting for him

[00:07:40] every step of the way

[00:07:41] and he just never put a bad foot forward

[00:07:44] Yeah I mean I mentioned that

[00:07:45] I think in the first episode

[00:07:47] of the UK

[00:07:48] version that I just

[00:07:50] I found him so endearing

[00:07:52] and his like

[00:07:53] nerdiness

[00:07:54] was such a turn on

[00:07:55] I just thought he was adorable

[00:07:57] Michael had this way of

[00:07:59] just running so hot and cold

[00:08:01] and running to extremes

[00:08:03] in his reactions to things

[00:08:05] and we kept critiquing it

[00:08:08] that he would always

[00:08:10] as his go to be like

[00:08:12] well I'm gonna shit on Justin

[00:08:14] It's like why?

[00:08:15] You were his best friend

[00:08:16] and like

[00:08:17] and comic partner

[00:08:18] not two seconds ago

[00:08:20] but apparently everything's still his fault

[00:08:21] Like get the fuck over yourself

[00:08:23] And again I just

[00:08:26] God, Vince and that adorable accent

[00:08:28] just mmm

[00:08:30] So we were split on the next one

[00:08:32] I picked Nathan Maloney

[00:08:34] and you picked Justin Taylor

[00:08:35] and I just have to go with Nathan

[00:08:37] because he seemed to get his shit together

[00:08:39] faster than poor little Justin did

[00:08:42] After a while it just seemed like

[00:08:43] the US writers were yo-yoing

[00:08:45] Justin all over the place

[00:08:47] and not really giving him

[00:08:48] a clear coherent narrative

[00:08:50] One moment he was wise

[00:08:52] the next minute he was whiny little boy

[00:08:54] I just thought that

[00:08:56] his growth as a character

[00:08:57] was really really obtuse

[00:08:59] throughout the entire US series

[00:09:01] so Nathan Maloney for the win

[00:09:03] Justin, I think it's funny

[00:09:06] that you think that

[00:09:07] Nathan got his shit together

[00:09:09] faster than Justin did

[00:09:10] because I think Justin had us

[00:09:13] I thought he popped more when it came to

[00:09:15] finding his independence

[00:09:17] and finding his voice

[00:09:18] than I think Nathan did

[00:09:19] I thought Nathan

[00:09:20] especially when he had people

[00:09:22] who were so supportive of him

[00:09:23] like the way he treated his mother

[00:09:25] just pissed me off to no end

[00:09:27] Good point

[00:09:29] and the way he treated Donna

[00:09:31] the way he wanted to

[00:09:33] live this gay life

[00:09:35] I always thought he was like

[00:09:37] obviously trying to sell that

[00:09:39] he was bought into the whole

[00:09:41] gay fantasia a lot

[00:09:43] he's like that he was living in that

[00:09:45] and it's like no, you're putting on a show

[00:09:47] and we're all kind of seeing through it

[00:09:49] so why are you lying about it

[00:09:50] like these are your best friends

[00:09:52] it's okay

[00:09:54] and so I just

[00:09:55] I found him kind of

[00:09:57] a little too grating for me

[00:09:58] Phil versus Ted was an easy one

[00:09:59] we both agreed on this one

[00:10:00] I think this was mostly because

[00:10:02] Phil was just killed off so quickly

[00:10:04] we didn't really know him

[00:10:06] exactly

[00:10:07] my only complaint with Ted

[00:10:09] is that the US writers

[00:10:11] just couldn't get enough of wrecking his life

[00:10:13] over and over and over

[00:10:15] that's another reason why I wanted to pick him

[00:10:17] because he was such a punching bag

[00:10:18] for this series that I was like

[00:10:20] no, I'm gonna give you a win

[00:10:21] but wouldn't it have been nice to see Ted

[00:10:23] just come out of the series more

[00:10:25] fully bagged as a person

[00:10:26] and not having gone through

[00:10:28] so much

[00:10:29] there's always

[00:10:30] I think you find it in every series

[00:10:32] there's always gonna be that character

[00:10:33] that they're gonna put the brunt

[00:10:35] of bad things

[00:10:37] on one of them

[00:10:38] like they're gonna be

[00:10:39] they're gonna be that

[00:10:40] show's victim

[00:10:42] well the next one was

[00:10:43] also we were in agreement on

[00:10:45] Emmett versus Alexander

[00:10:46] so Emmett Honeycutt

[00:10:48] clearly trounces him

[00:10:49] Alexander really didn't even need to be

[00:10:51] in this show at all

[00:10:53] you'll remember how many times

[00:10:55] I asked the question of why Alexander

[00:10:57] was in just about any scene

[00:10:59] he happened to be in

[00:11:00] with the exception of that first episode

[00:11:03] where he gets off the plane

[00:11:05] and he was with the three some with the undertaker

[00:11:07] that should have been it

[00:11:08] he should have gone

[00:11:09] yeah should have just been like a guest star situation

[00:11:12] if anything I will give credit

[00:11:14] to the US series for finding

[00:11:16] a purpose for Emmett

[00:11:18] and I think that was a character

[00:11:20] that is probably the strongest

[00:11:21] one of the strongest characters

[00:11:22] that came out of the US version

[00:11:25] and a way to really give him

[00:11:27] his own voice

[00:11:28] you know from the UK counterpart

[00:11:31] her next one was Janice Maloney

[00:11:33] or Jennifer Taylor

[00:11:34] and Jennifer Taylor had to have

[00:11:36] the win here because she just stole

[00:11:38] every scene she was in

[00:11:39] whereas Janice Maloney was really

[00:11:42] kind of just an angst-ridden mother

[00:11:44] coping to deal with her

[00:11:46] newly out gay son

[00:11:48] but Jennifer Taylor became like ally

[00:11:50] throughout the series

[00:11:53] so I like that ride that she gave us

[00:11:55] and she wore like such great pantsuits

[00:11:57] she looked great

[00:11:58] I love how they dressed her

[00:12:00] they also allowed her to become

[00:12:01] her own independent person

[00:12:03] she also started you know

[00:12:05] get that young dick

[00:12:07] oh my god

[00:12:08] I forgot about that

[00:12:09] let's talk about that

[00:12:10] let's talk about that

[00:12:11] way for the hers

[00:12:12] woo

[00:12:13] like good for her

[00:12:15] she got herself a job

[00:12:17] she dumbed that asshole

[00:12:18] I mean yes

[00:12:19] props Jennifer

[00:12:20] next one was Hazel Tyler

[00:12:22] and Debbie Navotny

[00:12:23] and we both picked Hazel

[00:12:24] I liked Hazel much better than Debbie

[00:12:26] because Debbie always came off

[00:12:28] as this benevolently bitchy

[00:12:30] know-it-all character

[00:12:32] and I don't like that

[00:12:33] and she did have some killer scenes

[00:12:35] but I think

[00:12:36] I think Hazel is the better mom

[00:12:38] yeah and I think that really came down

[00:12:40] to the way Hazel was cast

[00:12:42] being much closer to Vincent

[00:12:44] age at least in my interpretation

[00:12:46] of it she was much closer to him in age

[00:12:48] so I understood what their mother-son

[00:12:50] dynamic was

[00:12:52] and she had a way

[00:12:54] of being involved

[00:12:56] in his life

[00:12:57] and involved in the things he did

[00:12:59] without it feeling too intrusive

[00:13:01] and not too over the top

[00:13:03] we both agreed on the next one too

[00:13:04] which was Donna versus Daphne

[00:13:06] even though both of them have minor parts

[00:13:08] Donna just never hesitated

[00:13:10] to tell off Nathan

[00:13:11] like when she

[00:13:13] put him in his place with that line

[00:13:15] I'm black and I'm a girl

[00:13:18] try that for a week

[00:13:20] she also dropped everything to go to London with Nathan

[00:13:22] and she was also never heard from again

[00:13:24] if you remember

[00:13:26] Daphne was really just there

[00:13:29] for Justin to have a conversation with

[00:13:31] to tell us more about Justin

[00:13:33] so the Daphne character

[00:13:35] herself really didn't go anywhere

[00:13:37] in this series

[00:13:38] and that was kind of disappointing

[00:13:39] because we liked her

[00:13:40] she had some good scenes

[00:13:42] but at the end of the day

[00:13:44] Donna was the much more impactful character

[00:13:47] I think

[00:13:48] Cosine, all of that

[00:13:49] Okay, let's move on to the lesbians then

[00:13:51] They were there

[00:13:52] I don't have much else

[00:13:54] Well, the UK lesbians won for me

[00:13:57] but on a technicality though

[00:13:59] there just simply wasn't enough airtime

[00:14:01] for them to have serious problems

[00:14:03] whereas the US lesbians

[00:14:04] had tons of contrived drama

[00:14:06] some of it good

[00:14:07] but much of it was kind of head scratching

[00:14:09] like why are you doing this to these people?

[00:14:11] and is this real?

[00:14:13] that type of thing so

[00:14:15] Yeah, they were minor characters

[00:14:17] I thought that was always an issue

[00:14:19] that I had with the US version

[00:14:21] was that okay, so we have these lesbian characters

[00:14:23] but we don't treat them

[00:14:25] as realistically

[00:14:27] as we do our gay characters

[00:14:29] and they also were given

[00:14:31] the most graphic sex scenes

[00:14:33] when the show really wanted to be a focus

[00:14:35] on the gay men

[00:14:37] I saw a lot more female nudity

[00:14:39] and gratuitous female nudity

[00:14:42] than I thought was really necessary

[00:14:44] Canal Street vs.

[00:14:46] fake Pittsburgh gayhood

[00:14:48] and I had Canal Street for the win

[00:14:50] so did you

[00:14:51] mostly for me this is

[00:14:53] because it's a real area

[00:14:55] and many of the bars and clubs

[00:14:57] in the show are actually real

[00:14:59] the US show never really had a Pittsburgh identity

[00:15:02] because it was all made up

[00:15:04] I don't know, it was just kind of this like fantasy land

[00:15:07] it just didn't come off as

[00:15:09] something we could go visit on holiday

[00:15:11] Yeah, and I think after

[00:15:13] you know, thankfully getting to travel

[00:15:15] to England

[00:15:17] before all this

[00:15:19] made me really appreciate the UK setting

[00:15:22] so much more

[00:15:23] and really

[00:15:25] it really made me miss London

[00:15:27] really miss London so

[00:15:29] shout out to Canal Street

[00:15:31] I also never reigned in Manchester which I really liked

[00:15:33] Next one was

[00:15:35] No Reigns, no

[00:15:37] Ethan Gold or Daz Collinson

[00:15:39] and Ethan Gold got the win for me

[00:15:41] the story of Justin and Ethan

[00:15:43] I think was one of the better arcs in the US scene

[00:15:46] Ethan just had a lot going for him

[00:15:48] Daz was just a twat

[00:15:51] as Nathan told his mother

[00:15:56] Yes, exactly

[00:15:58] Ethan Gold was a accomplished musician

[00:16:01] he was incredibly charming

[00:16:03] he was incredibly sexy

[00:16:05] Daz was just sort of there

[00:16:07] Daz just hit this annoying point

[00:16:09] when we first met him, we were like

[00:16:11] okay, that's cool

[00:16:13] and then after a while it's like

[00:16:15] oh shut up, you're such a twat

[00:16:17] Why are you here?

[00:16:19] The next one we agreed on

[00:16:21] and this one if listeners

[00:16:23] if you've ever listened to our US series

[00:16:25] you'll remember that I had a love-hate relationship

[00:16:27] with Dr. David Cameron

[00:16:29] but he gets the win here

[00:16:31] even though he was something of a thorn

[00:16:34] in Michael's side

[00:16:36] he was more likable in my mind

[00:16:38] and he was better

[00:16:41] to his youthful boyfriend

[00:16:43] than Cameron Roberts was to Vince

[00:16:45] I just liked the way that

[00:16:47] he was just more into Michael

[00:16:49] than Cameron was into Vince

[00:16:51] Yeah, it was almost as if

[00:16:53] Cameron saw Vince as a project

[00:16:55] I'm gonna find all the ways

[00:16:57] that I'm going to better you

[00:16:59] Yeah, exactly

[00:17:01] Whereas I think Dr. David Cameron

[00:17:03] had a very genuine love

[00:17:05] for Michael

[00:17:07] it was more like he treated him

[00:17:09] than wanted to improve his life

[00:17:11] to get to his level

[00:17:13] Next one we disagreed on

[00:17:15] this was nobody

[00:17:17] or Ben Bruckner

[00:17:19] Ben Bruckner started out the US show

[00:17:21] as just an outstanding character

[00:17:23] and then he was almost immediately marginalized

[00:17:25] into Michael's hype man

[00:17:27] and he should have been killed off

[00:17:29] in those first couple of episodes

[00:17:31] because you remember early on

[00:17:33] when Michael was trying to cope

[00:17:35] with dating an HIV positive man

[00:17:37] those were some of the best

[00:17:39] storylines of that particular season

[00:17:41] but then they didn't really do

[00:17:43] anything else with Ben Bruckner

[00:17:45] and that's why I just had to go

[00:17:47] with nobody

[00:17:49] the show would have been better without him

[00:17:51] or if he was killed off

[00:17:53] You say that but then I don't think

[00:17:55] when Hunter enters the picture

[00:17:57] and I think that gives Ben

[00:17:59] such a greater purpose because then he is able to be

[00:18:01] not only that father to him

[00:18:03] but also that figure

[00:18:05] that allows Hunter to see that you can live

[00:18:07] with HIV and live fine

[00:18:09] you can be healthy, you can

[00:18:11] live a normal life

[00:18:13] you can live a life that is

[00:18:15] not just

[00:18:17] that is already determined because you have a chronic illness

[00:18:19] so I really

[00:18:21] appreciated that, I really appreciated his chest

[00:18:23] his arms

[00:18:25] so yeah I will

[00:18:27] choose Ben. Well that's a good segue into the next one

[00:18:29] which was Bernard versus Vic

[00:18:31] and for me Uncle Vic wins

[00:18:33] by a game isle because

[00:18:35] Bernard was like one of those muppets

[00:18:37] in the balcony

[00:18:39] Uncle Vic was one of the

[00:18:41] standout US characters partially

[00:18:43] due to Jack Weatherall's portrayal of the character

[00:18:45] but you remember

[00:18:47] they killed off Uncle Vic

[00:18:49] to bring us Hunter

[00:18:51] and left us way too soon. Absolutely

[00:18:53] I thought he was always funny

[00:18:55] I never found his advice

[00:18:57] to Michael contrived

[00:18:59] I always thought it was

[00:19:01] always poignant and that's also just the testament

[00:19:03] to Jack Weatherall finding

[00:19:05] the heart and humanity and anything they gave

[00:19:07] Uncle Vic. We

[00:19:09] split on the next one

[00:19:11] Christian Hobbs versus Chris Hobbs

[00:19:13] I had to go with UK Christian Hobbs over US Chris Hobbs

[00:19:15] I actually believed

[00:19:17] that Christian Hobbs was gay

[00:19:19] and secretly into Nathan

[00:19:21] and I think that's a better story than Justin

[00:19:23] just jacking off a clearly

[00:19:25] straight character in the US series

[00:19:27] So yes to that

[00:19:29] but also I thought

[00:19:31] the hand job scene of the US version was

[00:19:33] hotter

[00:19:35] Oh I thought you said that you like the UK

[00:19:37] version better. I'm gonna have to check the tape

[00:19:39] No let's check

[00:19:41] that because this is why

[00:19:43] I had to say yes to both

[00:19:45] because I think they're both

[00:19:47] hot but there's something about

[00:19:49] Jacking off a straight guy. Yeah there's that

[00:19:51] but then there's just something to Chris

[00:19:53] the way he gives into the pleasure

[00:19:55] and

[00:19:57] give me a moment I'm just thinking

[00:19:59] about the scenes again

[00:20:01] To add that one to rotation

[00:20:05] The last category of our

[00:20:07] quickfire was UK sex

[00:20:09] versus US sex

[00:20:11] and I thought the UK sex

[00:20:13] was better because it was

[00:20:15] well moderated and well

[00:20:17] time. We used to joke about

[00:20:19] the US shows always having to have at least

[00:20:21] one sexual interlude

[00:20:23] set to music. In the UK

[00:20:25] sex was implicit for

[00:20:27] all the characters in the US it was

[00:20:29] explicit and that's why

[00:20:31] I really saw the UK sex

[00:20:33] to be a lot more interesting

[00:20:35] The best example of why the

[00:20:37] UK sex worked so much more for me

[00:20:39] was that moment when

[00:20:41] Nathan and Stuart go up

[00:20:43] to

[00:20:45] Vince's room and they get each other off

[00:20:47] in like the most animalistic way

[00:20:49] and it was just that was hot

[00:20:53] Nothing, nothing. Maybe that was explicit

[00:20:55] Nothing

[00:20:57] Nothing in the

[00:20:59] US rapid fire

[00:21:01] editing hyped up

[00:21:03] video editing

[00:21:05] kind of situation that they had

[00:21:07] ever really matched

[00:21:09] what the UK version did with that

[00:21:11] is so queer spoke

[00:21:14] stick around, got more to come

[00:21:16] Our next segment is called

[00:21:44] Who Would You Do?

[00:21:46] or basically Who Would You Rather Fuck

[00:21:48] since we're both

[00:21:50] verse

[00:21:52] kind of

[00:21:54] we can take this as either topping or

[00:21:56] bottoming and remember this is just

[00:21:58] fucking so basically

[00:22:00] a slutty beauty pageant unlike

[00:22:02] what we just talked about with each character

[00:22:04] so I'll do the quickfire again. Ready?

[00:22:06] Yeah. Stuart Allen Jones or Brian

[00:22:08] Kinney? Stuart

[00:22:10] Vince Tyler or Michael Navotney, Bruckner?

[00:22:12] Vince. Nathan Maloney or Justin

[00:22:14] Taylor? Justin

[00:22:16] Philip Delaney or Ted Schmidt? Philip

[00:22:18] Alexander Perry or Emmett Honeycut? Emmett

[00:22:20] Daz Collinson or Ethan Gold? Ethan

[00:22:22] Cameron Roberts or Dr. David Cameron?

[00:22:24] Dr. David Cameron

[00:22:26] Nobody or Ben Bruckner? Ben

[00:22:28] Bruckner. Christian Hobbs or

[00:22:30] Chris Hobbs? You can't pick both

[00:22:32] Yes. You saw a bitch

[00:22:34] You knew what I was going to do

[00:22:38] Okay, I'll be honest. I'll say Christian

[00:22:40] Okay, you had

[00:22:42] five US and four UK

[00:22:44] Oh well, yeah

[00:22:46] I had Brian Kinney over

[00:22:48] Stuart, Vince over

[00:22:50] Michael, Nathan over Justin

[00:22:52] Ted over Philip

[00:22:54] Emmett over Alexander

[00:22:56] Ethan over Daz

[00:22:58] Dr. David Cameron over Cameron Roberts

[00:23:00] Nobody over Ben Bruckner

[00:23:02] and Christian Hobbs versus Chris

[00:23:04] Hobbs, so I had

[00:23:06] US beating UK 5-4

[00:23:08] and so did you

[00:23:10] Let's take these one by one. The first

[00:23:12] one was a tough one because I find Stuart

[00:23:14] overall more attractive but I think

[00:23:16] Brian is kind of the sexier

[00:23:18] of the two. There's just something

[00:23:20] about him that I found to have a

[00:23:22] little more magnetism

[00:23:24] I have the opposite feeling

[00:23:26] Oh. I think

[00:23:28] Stuart is as much

[00:23:30] into getting pleasure

[00:23:32] and giving pleasure where

[00:23:34] I think Brian was much more into just

[00:23:36] getting pleasure. I had

[00:23:38] no debate on Vince versus

[00:23:40] Michael. I used to daydream about

[00:23:42] Vince and Michael just always seemed

[00:23:44] a little too straight for me

[00:23:46] Oh, I've said

[00:23:48] I'm in love with Vince Taylor. I'm in love

[00:23:50] with him. Everything about him is perfect. Are you going to write fan mail to Craig Kelly?

[00:23:54] Maybe. Yeah, so I'll try

[00:23:56] and find my two

[00:23:58] because I said VHS of Titanic

[00:24:02] I said to him like, I remember

[00:24:04] your scene.

[00:24:06] I went to find that scene because I did

[00:24:08] a drop into the last episode

[00:24:10] when we talked about him. I don't think you listen to these

[00:24:12] episodes do you?

[00:24:14] You don't.

[00:24:16] You don't listen to your work.

[00:24:18] I trust my listeners too.

[00:24:20] But I found that one of his scenes

[00:24:22] got cut and there was

[00:24:24] apparently another one where

[00:24:26] it was just the two of them in the radio room

[00:24:28] but that's not in the print that I had of the

[00:24:30] movie. It was just him walking up

[00:24:32] to the captain saying, there's ice I had

[00:24:34] Excuse me sir. Another ice war.

[00:24:36] This one's from the northern.

[00:24:38] Thank you, smart.

[00:24:40] When that's it, I wonder

[00:24:42] if that

[00:24:44] since then something some things have been

[00:24:46] trimmed a little bit.

[00:24:48] That

[00:24:50] Yeah, it was in the script but I didn't have a shooting script

[00:24:52] I just found a script

[00:24:54] and his second scene was not in the

[00:24:56] actual picture.

[00:24:58] Okay, so next one. Nathan Maloney or Justin

[00:25:00] Taylor. I had Nathan Maloney.

[00:25:02] You had Justin Taylor.

[00:25:04] I picked Nathan because first of all he's

[00:25:06] taller.

[00:25:08] Those abs on him are just killer

[00:25:10] and those frames of

[00:25:12] film in the first few episodes

[00:25:14] of his butt

[00:25:16] and the twinkle in his eye

[00:25:18] it just far outpaces that

[00:25:20] kind of short, rolly-poly Justin

[00:25:22] Taylor look.

[00:25:24] Remember when he was a go-go dancer and we were kind of like

[00:25:26] ooh.

[00:25:28] So Nathan for the win. It's the 15 year old

[00:25:30] thing that kills it for me. He turned

[00:25:32] 16 in the show.

[00:25:34] That's a very good

[00:25:38] point though.

[00:25:42] Did I just identify as a creepy old man?

[00:25:44] Little bit.

[00:25:46] Anything else you'd like to share about

[00:25:50] a 17 year old Justin

[00:25:52] No.

[00:25:54] Maybe I'll have to edit this segment.

[00:25:56] I'd like to think that maybe he would

[00:25:58] draw me at one point.

[00:26:00] The next one. You picked Philip Dillini

[00:26:02] over Ted Schmidt. I had Ted

[00:26:04] Schmidt because we never really got a

[00:26:06] good look at film but

[00:26:08] I remember commenting a few times on how

[00:26:10] hot Ted was at certain points

[00:26:12] in the US show. Like he went on such

[00:26:14] a wild arc that he was

[00:26:16] kind of all over the board

[00:26:18] but there were several scenes where

[00:26:20] Ted's body was just

[00:26:22] banging and I was like

[00:26:24] oh Ted.

[00:26:26] Was that when he was in his crystal

[00:26:28] phase or

[00:26:30] I think it was after

[00:26:32] the crystal phase and after

[00:26:34] he had his fake plastic surgery.

[00:26:36] Oh I see.

[00:26:38] I remember that one scene when he's walking through the park with Emmett

[00:26:40] and we both went whoa what's going on

[00:26:42] there because all of a sudden he just looked

[00:26:44] amazing.

[00:26:46] It's true.

[00:26:48] No Philip, I feel like

[00:26:50] he would care more

[00:26:52] and probably not wear awful boxers.

[00:26:54] Oh good point. Very good point.

[00:26:56] Next one was

[00:26:58] Alexander versus Emmett.

[00:27:00] I kind of feel the same way about Emmett as I did

[00:27:02] Ted. Those scenes when Emmett

[00:27:04] was a porn star were hot as fuck.

[00:27:06] We never got a really good look at

[00:27:08] Alexander though. You're right exactly

[00:27:10] and my assumption is

[00:27:12] that Emmett can

[00:27:14] give as well as he can take.

[00:27:16] Well

[00:27:18] at least and we all know that he can

[00:27:20] certainly take it after we watched him

[00:27:22] have sex with Drew.

[00:27:24] Oh yeah, Drew Boyd the professional footballer.

[00:27:28] The next one we obviously

[00:27:30] agreed on that was Ethan Gold over Dows

[00:27:32] Collinson. If

[00:27:34] Ethan didn't have that soul patch on his chin

[00:27:36] I probably would have sent him fan mail.

[00:27:38] I found him that hot.

[00:27:40] Oh yeah it's like you just need to

[00:27:42] cover it with your hand and then do everything

[00:27:44] else.

[00:27:46] As soon as he starts playing that violin it's like

[00:27:48] take me.

[00:27:50] I remember he was playing the violin when

[00:27:52] he woke up Justin to play the

[00:27:54] violin. We were like

[00:27:56] Oh my god

[00:27:58] could you be any hotter?

[00:28:00] So the Camerons, Dr. David Cameron

[00:28:02] wins for me. This was close though

[00:28:04] it could have gone either way.

[00:28:06] I wouldn't walk away from either of the Camerons.

[00:28:08] I loved

[00:28:10] the mid-century modern home that he would give me.

[00:28:12] Architecturally perfect mid-century modern

[00:28:14] home. Exactly.

[00:28:16] And I know that he had

[00:28:18] that little indiscretion

[00:28:20] in the bath house when Brian saw him.

[00:28:22] Oh right. Then it would just be like

[00:28:24] no Dr. Cameron if that's what you want

[00:28:26] to do let's go.

[00:28:31] The next one nobody

[00:28:33] or Ben Breckner and Ben Breckner

[00:28:35] never really did anything for me.

[00:28:37] I'm just not into that Jim Bunny

[00:28:39] hulked out, steroid look

[00:28:41] that he was vibing

[00:28:43] contradict me. I'll take it

[00:28:45] I'll take it all night long.

[00:28:47] The final one we both picked

[00:28:49] Christian Hobbs after much debate

[00:28:51] by you. I thought those

[00:28:53] scenes where he's awkwardly hitting

[00:28:55] on Nathan are what did it for me

[00:28:57] like that one time in the pub where

[00:28:59] he looks across and he gives him that smile

[00:29:01] or that time in the hallway

[00:29:03] at school where he's kind of

[00:29:05] acting hurt that Nathan

[00:29:07] wasn't paying attention to him. I just

[00:29:09] thought that Chris Hobbs in the US series was just

[00:29:11] a random annoying jock.

[00:29:13] Didn't like him at all. Much less

[00:29:15] of a chance that

[00:29:17] Christian Hobbs would hate

[00:29:19] crime me. So that's

[00:29:21] how I picked. Fair enough.

[00:29:23] Okay now we're going to do one thing

[00:29:25] where I didn't give you

[00:29:27] that in the show outline

[00:29:29] but we're going to do two very quick

[00:29:31] fuck Mary kills. So I'm going to name

[00:29:33] three people and you have to say which one you would fuck

[00:29:35] which one you'd marry and which one you would kill.

[00:29:37] Okay. Stuart Vence Nathan

[00:29:39] Stuart Vence

[00:29:41] Nathan

[00:29:43] Fuck Stuart Mary Vence kill Nathan

[00:29:45] Okay. Brian Michael

[00:29:47] Justin

[00:29:49] Fuck Brian Mary

[00:29:51] Justin kill Michael. Okay. So

[00:29:53] for me it would have been

[00:29:55] fuck Nathan Mary Vence

[00:29:57] kill Stuart. Oh, okay.

[00:29:59] For the US

[00:30:01] for me it would have been fuck Brian

[00:30:03] Mary Justin kill Michael

[00:30:05] Yep. We agree there

[00:30:07] like that one was hard

[00:30:09] we'll be back with more still

[00:30:12] course.

[00:30:14] As is our

[00:30:49] custom at the end of each series I

[00:30:51] challenge Matt to a pub quiz

[00:30:53] about things that happened in the series

[00:30:55] I've got 15 questions

[00:30:57] ready to go and

[00:30:59] I don't have to answer these because I wrote them

[00:31:03] You just need to

[00:31:05] I should have flipped the script and said Patrick I

[00:31:07] had 15 questions

[00:31:09] You should have. You threatened to do that

[00:31:11] in season 4 or 5

[00:31:13] of US? You never did though

[00:31:15] No. Okay so you got to answer these

[00:31:17] as quick as possible no dwelling

[00:31:19] if you'd like you can say

[00:31:21] pass

[00:31:23] and we'll come back to the question

[00:31:25] at the end. Okay. Okay.

[00:31:27] Alright ready?

[00:31:29] No but here we go. You'll do fine

[00:31:31] How old is Nathan Maloney when the show starts?

[00:31:33] 15. It's 15 aren't you Nate?

[00:31:35] What birthday did Vence celebrate where Cameron

[00:31:37] bought him a car? 30.

[00:31:39] What kind of car did Cameron

[00:31:41] give Vence for his birthday?

[00:31:43] Oh it was kind of a junker

[00:31:45] I can't remember the exact model though

[00:31:47] It's just a mini. How old is Stuart?

[00:31:49] 29.

[00:31:51] What country is Stuart from?

[00:31:53] Scotland

[00:31:55] What is Nathan's sister's name?

[00:31:57] Oh god pass.

[00:31:59] What is Stuart's father's name?

[00:32:01] Pass. What is Cameron's occupation?

[00:32:03] He's an accountant.

[00:32:05] Who the fuck is Martin Brooks?

[00:32:07] Who the fuck is Martin Brooks?

[00:32:09] He was Stuart's client.

[00:32:13] Whose ID does Nathan use to get into Babylon

[00:32:15] on the first night?

[00:32:19] Oh my god Bernard.

[00:32:21] What's your name? Bernard Thomas

[00:32:23] Date of birth 1946

[00:32:25] Looking good Bernard. 8 quid.

[00:32:27] Who is Romy going to marry?

[00:32:29] Oh the uh... gosh

[00:32:31] The foreign guy.

[00:32:33] I don't remember his name.

[00:32:35] Lance.

[00:32:37] Nice to meet you.

[00:32:39] What street is Stuart's series one flat on?

[00:32:41] Oh

[00:32:43] Canal Street

[00:32:45] What do they go back to yours?

[00:32:47] Mariners Court yeah.

[00:32:49] What street is Stuart's series two flat on?

[00:32:51] Uh

[00:32:53] Maybe that one's Canal Street.

[00:32:55] Must be nice.

[00:32:57] You know living on Canal Street.

[00:32:59] What is Stuart and Romy's baby's name?

[00:33:01] Oooh

[00:33:03] It's not girls.

[00:33:05] It's someone I pass.

[00:33:07] Vince. Will the check on Alfred?

[00:33:09] Name a sex act that Nathan and his mother have in common.

[00:33:11] A sex act that they have in common?

[00:33:15] Wow. Oh anal.

[00:33:17] Well I'm not trying it again. The ass thing.

[00:33:19] What pop singer did Daz claim to dress up as?

[00:33:21] Kylie.

[00:33:23] We did fancy dress. I was Britney Spears.

[00:33:25] I've done her Hollywood show bar.

[00:33:27] We'll go back to the ones you passed.

[00:33:29] What's Nathan's sister's name?

[00:33:31] Molly.

[00:33:33] It's Helen I'm worried about.

[00:33:35] She's ten years old.

[00:33:37] What is Stuart's father's name?

[00:33:39] John.

[00:33:41] What is Stuart and Romy's baby's name?

[00:33:43] Bartholomew.

[00:33:47] Okay let me add these up here.

[00:33:51] You got eight right.

[00:33:53] Better than I expected.

[00:33:55] Seven wrong.

[00:33:57] That's passing.

[00:33:59] As you missed, Stuart is from Ireland.

[00:34:01] Oh.

[00:34:03] Nathan's sister is named Helen.

[00:34:05] Stuart's father's name is Clive.

[00:34:07] Romy was going to marry Lance Amonpa.

[00:34:11] Season one, Stuart lived on Mariner's Court.

[00:34:15] In season two he lived on Canal Street.

[00:34:17] You got that one right?

[00:34:19] Stuart and Romy's baby's name is Alfred.

[00:34:21] Oh Alfie.

[00:34:23] Daz claimed to dress up as Britney Spears.

[00:34:25] That's bullshit.

[00:34:27] You got those sex out.

[00:34:29] You were never close to Britney.

[00:34:31] They both did anal, not with each other.

[00:34:33] No but I guess I remember when Janna came over

[00:34:35] and she was talking about how they tried it.

[00:34:39] Our next game is called Stuart vs Brian.

[00:34:41] And I've got ten quotes from either

[00:34:43] Stuart Ellen Jones or Brian Kinney.

[00:34:45] I'll read them to you and you have to pick

[00:34:47] who said which one.

[00:34:49] Those pens.

[00:34:51] I've got to get rid of those pens.

[00:34:53] Stuart.

[00:34:55] I've got to get rid of the pens.

[00:34:57] Jesus Christ is there no one left in the world straight.

[00:34:59] Brian.

[00:35:01] Jesus Christ is there no one straight left in the world.

[00:35:03] The rumor is right but unless I'm fucking you

[00:35:05] it is none of your business.

[00:35:07] Stuart.

[00:35:09] But unless I'm fucking you, it's not in your business.

[00:35:11] You're never to play violin music in my presence again.

[00:35:13] Brian.

[00:35:15] And you're never to play violin music in my presence again.

[00:35:17] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.

[00:35:19] Brian.

[00:35:21] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.

[00:35:23] I need to lay down.

[00:35:25] Just tell her that you take it up the ass

[00:35:27] and get out of there.

[00:35:29] Brian.

[00:35:31] Fuck's sake just tell her you take it up the ass

[00:35:33] and get out of there.

[00:35:35] I'm a cocksucker.

[00:35:37] I'm queer.

[00:35:39] And to anyone who takes pity or offense

[00:35:41] I say judge yourself.

[00:35:43] Stuart.

[00:35:45] I'm a cocksucker.

[00:35:47] I'm queer.

[00:35:49] And to anyone

[00:35:51] judge yourself.

[00:35:53] Lesbian letters.

[00:35:55] Can I read them?

[00:35:59] I'll say Brian.

[00:36:01] Lesbian letters.

[00:36:03] Can I read them?

[00:36:05] So are you coming or going

[00:36:07] or coming and then going

[00:36:09] or coming and staying?

[00:36:11] Brian.

[00:36:13] So are you coming or going?

[00:36:15] Or coming and then going?

[00:36:17] Or coming

[00:36:19] and staying?

[00:36:21] My world's so fucking huge.

[00:36:23] Brian.

[00:36:25] My world's so fucking huge.

[00:36:27] I don't believe in love.

[00:36:29] I believe in fucking.

[00:36:31] It's honest, it's efficient.

[00:36:33] You get in and out with a maximum of pleasure

[00:36:35] and a minimum of bullshit.

[00:36:37] Stuart.

[00:36:39] I don't believe in love.

[00:36:41] I believe in fucking.

[00:36:43] It's honest, it's efficient.

[00:36:45] You get in and out with a maximum

[00:36:47] of pleasure and a minimum of bullshit.

[00:36:49] Okay.

[00:36:51] He didn't do so hot.

[00:36:53] Okay.

[00:36:55] I thought I was going to have

[00:36:57] some Britishisms

[00:36:59] that I could latch on to

[00:37:01] to get it Stuart, but

[00:37:03] you were clever.

[00:37:05] You were clever with these.

[00:37:07] You were clever with these.

[00:37:09] So let's see.

[00:37:11] One, two, three,

[00:37:13] four, right?

[00:37:15] Out of ten.

[00:37:17] So Jesus Christ,

[00:37:19] is there no one left straight in this world?

[00:37:21] That was clearly Stuart.

[00:37:23] Talking to Martin Brooks.

[00:37:25] The rumor is right but unless I'm fucking you,

[00:37:27] it is none of your business.

[00:37:29] That was Brian talking to Gardner Vance,

[00:37:31] his new boss.

[00:37:33] Just tell her that you take it up the ass

[00:37:35] and get out of there.

[00:37:37] That was Stuart yelling at Vince

[00:37:39] when Vince was on that date with Rosalie.

[00:37:41] Okay.

[00:37:43] Anyone who takes pity or offense, I say judge yourself.

[00:37:45] That was season five

[00:37:47] episode one of the U.S. series

[00:37:49] when Brian decides

[00:37:51] to reopen Babylon

[00:37:53] after it blows up.

[00:37:55] Lesbian letters, can I read them?

[00:37:57] That was Stuart in the park with Lisa.

[00:37:59] My world so fucking huge was

[00:38:01] Stuart and I don't believe

[00:38:03] in love. I believe in fucking

[00:38:05] that one's obviously Brian.

[00:38:07] So good job Matt.

[00:38:09] You know your characters.

[00:38:11] I can tell you that

[00:38:13] either one of them said it.

[00:38:17] Still course, folks.

[00:38:19] Be right back.

[00:38:41] Okay. Finally, I just wanted to talk

[00:38:43] generally about the two shows.

[00:38:45] Something that we found with our U.S.

[00:38:47] audience is that

[00:38:49] they are quite rabid compared to

[00:38:51] the UK audience.

[00:38:53] The comments from listeners of the UK

[00:38:55] series were more often than not

[00:38:57] giving us compliments or ideas

[00:38:59] about the podcast or

[00:39:01] even bits of information

[00:39:03] about things that we either missed

[00:39:05] or we just didn't pay attention to.

[00:39:07] The U.S. listeners seemed out for blood

[00:39:09] sometimes because we were critiquing

[00:39:11] the show and not being fan boys.

[00:39:13] We had always

[00:39:15] envisioned this show to be

[00:39:17] how does this show

[00:39:19] hold up so

[00:39:21] many years later?

[00:39:23] Given that a lot has changed

[00:39:25] in the world from 2000 when

[00:39:27] the show was considered

[00:39:29] groundbreaking

[00:39:31] and edgy

[00:39:33] and all the superlatives to make it seem

[00:39:35] like it was going to be an alternative

[00:39:37] show.

[00:39:39] It was on that premium cable

[00:39:41] and

[00:39:43] there was a lot of hype around it

[00:39:45] and I'm sure

[00:39:47] Patrick you can speak to it because

[00:39:49] you were watching the show when it was

[00:39:51] airing at the time.

[00:39:53] Go ahead, you can say it.

[00:39:55] We can go with the old way about that.

[00:39:59] I come from a different

[00:40:01] generation of

[00:40:03] people who still

[00:40:05] find the show.

[00:40:07] It's your entry into

[00:40:09] a world

[00:40:11] but it also can create

[00:40:13] a skewed view of that world.

[00:40:15] So part of that comes down

[00:40:17] to the critiquing of saying

[00:40:19] 2000, probably amazing

[00:40:21] and great and

[00:40:23] I could possibly say a bad thing about it

[00:40:25] or maybe not a bad thing but

[00:40:27] there are a lot of images,

[00:40:29] there's a lot of

[00:40:31] storylines that would not hold up today

[00:40:33] that would be

[00:40:35] there would be a lot of discussion

[00:40:37] saying like I can't believe they put this

[00:40:39] in the show

[00:40:41] and I thought we were always

[00:40:43] going to be very transparent when we talked

[00:40:45] about it.

[00:40:47] And it came out a lot more

[00:40:49] in the latter seasons which we always knew

[00:40:51] we were going to have a little trouble with

[00:40:53] because we knew the show became a little

[00:40:55] preacher, it did not have a blueprint

[00:40:57] of

[00:40:59] the UK series to continue

[00:41:01] to adapt so then it went off on its own

[00:41:03] we know that writing rooms changed

[00:41:05] we know that directors changed

[00:41:07] Russell T. Davies no longer

[00:41:09] was really involved in it

[00:41:11] so yeah it became its own thing

[00:41:13] and we thought it suffered for it

[00:41:15] and we said so.

[00:41:17] A pretty common complaint from

[00:41:19] the directors was that they thought

[00:41:21] we didn't like the show

[00:41:23] but the fact is

[00:41:25] I do like it as a whole

[00:41:27] why else would we spend 4 and a half years

[00:41:29] talking about it?

[00:41:31] I mean it was required viewing right

[00:41:33] when it was airing and even afterwards

[00:41:35] but it has problems and

[00:41:37] some of those problems are casual

[00:41:39] and even overt racism in some places

[00:41:41] or what somebody could

[00:41:43] objectively judge to be just very poor

[00:41:45] writing and storytelling

[00:41:47] doesn't mean that we don't like the show

[00:41:49] as a whole it had problems

[00:41:51] and those were the things that we

[00:41:53] wanted to talk about and a lot of people said

[00:41:55] oh well this is just a book report on

[00:41:57] screenwriting or something like that

[00:41:59] well yeah because story matters

[00:42:01] in any TV show and if

[00:42:03] the story is doing something that

[00:42:05] just is wrong

[00:42:07] for like society

[00:42:09] then we're gonna talk about it right

[00:42:11] and even amidst these

[00:42:13] critiques and these

[00:42:15] complaints

[00:42:17] the show endures

[00:42:19] the fact that we're able to create a podcast

[00:42:21] about it 20 years later

[00:42:23] and we see that there are fans who still

[00:42:25] watch it as they talk about it

[00:42:27] it does

[00:42:29] speak to its staying power

[00:42:31] so even with these critiques people are still watching the show

[00:42:33] so

[00:42:35] I mean yes you can probably

[00:42:37] say snide things to a podcast

[00:42:39] that decides to talk about it

[00:42:41] but we're talking about it

[00:42:43] maybe just a door or something

[00:42:45] we should say how wonderful it is

[00:42:47] right

[00:42:49] I can't imagine you know

[00:42:51] loving so much about

[00:42:53] the thumpa thumpa of this show

[00:42:55] and being just

[00:42:57] going on and on about it

[00:42:59] there's a couple of other Queersfolk podcasts

[00:43:01] that really are fan

[00:43:03] fan

[00:43:05] podcasts and staying

[00:43:07] I made a short list of some of my chief complaints

[00:43:09] about this show so

[00:43:11] I'll just rail these off and see what you think of them Matt

[00:43:13] I think that people

[00:43:15] kind of love the show because

[00:43:17] it's really all there was

[00:43:19] for a period of time

[00:43:21] there really wasn't any other gay scripted drama

[00:43:23] and it was just rare in the early 2000s

[00:43:25] and Queersfolk US

[00:43:27] wasn't the first

[00:43:29] gay TV show

[00:43:31] or as a lot of people just

[00:43:33] breathlessly say it's groundbreaking

[00:43:35] it did have production quality

[00:43:37] that rivaled everything else

[00:43:39] and it was on cable back then

[00:43:41] except for the storytelling

[00:43:43] these were like beautifully shot

[00:43:45] excellent score

[00:43:47] it was very watchable

[00:43:49] it took me 20 years to get to the point of where

[00:43:51] I gave it a more critical

[00:43:53] eye

[00:43:55] because I remember

[00:43:57] the first time I started watching it

[00:43:59] I had seen the UK show

[00:44:01] and I caught flu

[00:44:03] and I was in bed for like two days

[00:44:05] and a friend dropped off season one

[00:44:07] episodes and I watched it all

[00:44:09] as I was in bed with the flu

[00:44:11] and I just could not stop watching it

[00:44:13] that was like my first binge on DVDs

[00:44:15] oh

[00:44:17] I mean it was important

[00:44:19] but when we look at it now

[00:44:21] as we are older gay men

[00:44:23] that have seen a lot and done a lot

[00:44:25] we often look at the show and kind of go

[00:44:27] hmm

[00:44:29] yeah, when

[00:44:31] you're starving

[00:44:33] for representation

[00:44:35] you latch on to like anything

[00:44:37] so if this is the one thing that's there

[00:44:39] you're going to

[00:44:41] do what you can to lift it up

[00:44:43] because then maybe something else will come along

[00:44:45] and then when you then have an abundance

[00:44:47] of

[00:44:49] this kind of material

[00:44:51] you can then be like ok

[00:44:53] I'm glad this existed then

[00:44:55] to then lift up these other projects

[00:44:57] that became

[00:44:59] that took that mold and made it better

[00:45:01] or made it more timely

[00:45:03] or made something

[00:45:05] this is something like this was a big conversation

[00:45:07] I think people had when looking came

[00:45:09] on to HBO

[00:45:11] there was a lot of comparison because we're seeing

[00:45:13] gay men living in a city

[00:45:15] gay men on TV

[00:45:17] right and many gay men on TV

[00:45:19] and one of the chief complaints

[00:45:21] about looking people kept saying that it was

[00:45:23] boring and I'm like oh god

[00:45:25] these are

[00:45:27] and that was something that always astonished me

[00:45:29] because I would see

[00:45:31] the conversations looking was having

[00:45:33] between its characters and I had this exact

[00:45:35] conversation two days ago

[00:45:37] with my friends I found so much

[00:45:39] of myself in that

[00:45:41] show and it came at such an important time

[00:45:43] for me personally

[00:45:45] being someone who was newly out

[00:45:47] and I found material for me to latch on to

[00:45:49] that I'm sure people back in 2000

[00:45:51] did with Queer's Folk

[00:45:53] plus looking at Jonathan Groff and Russell Tovey

[00:45:55] so there's that

[00:45:57] there was

[00:45:59] an overarching theme to the US show

[00:46:01] where Brian wanted Justin

[00:46:03] to be the best homosexual

[00:46:05] he can be and

[00:46:07] I always just found that super

[00:46:09] goofy it was

[00:46:11] almost like this metaphysical thing or

[00:46:13] something I just don't think it serviced

[00:46:15] the story that well it's like what do you

[00:46:17] mean you're grooming him would you try

[00:46:19] to turn this kid into you really

[00:46:21] don't want him to be himself what

[00:46:23] what huh yeah that again

[00:46:25] that beads into that that super ego

[00:46:27] that we talked about so much with Brian

[00:46:29] where you know you're because you know

[00:46:31] the first episode we see him trying to be

[00:46:33] Superman staying on top of the hospital

[00:46:35] thinking that nothing can destroy him

[00:46:37] nothing can bring him down you know

[00:46:39] you know what Stuart's just more charming

[00:46:41] that's why I bought into it

[00:46:43] and so it's yeah it's like

[00:46:45] let Justin go on his own path which is

[00:46:47] I think where the show eventually like got

[00:46:49] to is that he had to let

[00:46:51] Justin go and let him be his

[00:46:53] own person but that was after

[00:46:55] he had really basically

[00:46:57] turned Justin into a mini version

[00:46:59] of himself yes

[00:47:01] yeah which I like I would like to think

[00:47:03] that if there was ever an extension of

[00:47:05] this series that we got to see Justin

[00:47:07] do his own thing I also think

[00:47:09] that copying the UK show line by

[00:47:11] line just didn't do the US

[00:47:13] show any favors

[00:47:15] maybe the US show needed to

[00:47:17] start photography really quickly

[00:47:19] so they had to work from existing

[00:47:21] stories and just do teleplays

[00:47:23] on them but those ended up

[00:47:25] being the best episodes of the entire

[00:47:27] US series after they had

[00:47:29] run their course and they ran out of material

[00:47:31] from Russell T. Davies

[00:47:33] the rest of the US series felt totally different

[00:47:35] I just gotta imagine that

[00:47:37] Russell Davies just can't stand the

[00:47:39] US version

[00:47:41] the writing was

[00:47:43] just off the wall and disjointed

[00:47:45] at the same time it was

[00:47:47] as if the characters never really settled

[00:47:49] into who they are and who

[00:47:51] they were going to become and just had this

[00:47:53] really slow period

[00:47:55] of problems over and over

[00:47:57] they just outright

[00:47:59] changed from episode to episode and some

[00:48:01] characters like Ben Bruckner were completely

[00:48:03] neutered after those dynamite first few

[00:48:05] episodes with him his

[00:48:07] character was just a pale

[00:48:09] of what it could have been it was almost

[00:48:11] as if the US series was

[00:48:13] written by people that

[00:48:15] had never lived anything

[00:48:17] remotely close to these stories where you can

[00:48:19] tell in Russell Davies' stories

[00:48:21] that they're autobiographical

[00:48:23] Cohen and Lippmann on the other hand

[00:48:25] just took way too long to establish

[00:48:27] their own stories like why bother

[00:48:29] taking UK centric characters

[00:48:31] and their UK centric stories and then trying

[00:48:33] to make them work as US characters

[00:48:35] in Pittsburgh I think the Ben example

[00:48:37] is such a great one to go with because

[00:48:39] I still think about that moment where

[00:48:41] they were going to have sex

[00:48:43] and Michael was saying

[00:48:45] like I want to and but it was

[00:48:47] it was such a block for them both

[00:48:49] and it's still the way

[00:48:51] we would hear the sound

[00:48:53] over the credits

[00:48:55] they didn't play in music and they told us

[00:48:57] ugh it was incredible

[00:48:59] great episode I loved that

[00:49:01] excellent episode but you're right

[00:49:03] then it's like okay now what do we do

[00:49:05] with it and they were just like well we give

[00:49:07] it our shot and then they just you know put it

[00:49:09] yeah he became an extra

[00:49:11] like really all of the things they could

[00:49:13] have explored especially when talking about

[00:49:15] what it means to be

[00:49:17] HIV positive but undetectable

[00:49:19] in this day and age

[00:49:21] and what it means to live

[00:49:23] with this chronic condition that's no longer

[00:49:25] a death sentence like there's so much

[00:49:27] that could have happened

[00:49:29] and it really feels like it didn't

[00:49:31] I also thought that the guest stars

[00:49:33] that had short story arcs

[00:49:35] really kind of made the US

[00:49:37] show much more bearable

[00:49:39] in the UK show had virtually no guest stars

[00:49:41] none right

[00:49:43] it was what 10 episodes 8 episodes

[00:49:45] the parts of the US show that resonated

[00:49:47] the most for me were the ones

[00:49:49] not starring the main cast

[00:49:51] like Dr. David Cameron, Ethan Gold

[00:49:53] Ben Breckner's

[00:49:55] HIV story before he became regular

[00:49:57] that awful Sam Auerbach

[00:49:59] character Lita

[00:50:01] and George Shickel

[00:50:03] all those people were never mentioned

[00:50:05] once their time on the show ended

[00:50:07] we were so pissed the way the Ethan Gold

[00:50:09] storyline wrapped up the fact that it wrapped up

[00:50:11] period I mean can you imagine

[00:50:13] if he gets shown up in like season 4

[00:50:15] should have kept showing up

[00:50:17] and then finally

[00:50:19] the UK series actually

[00:50:21] had a resolution ending

[00:50:23] that we can get our heads

[00:50:25] and hearts around

[00:50:27] the US series just kind of stumbled over the finish line

[00:50:29] in a way that left people

[00:50:31] kind of blue-balled

[00:50:33] the lesbians just pack up and leave

[00:50:35] Ted and Emmett never get together

[00:50:37] Justin leaves for New York to become the best homosexual he can be

[00:50:39] Brian has left in exactly the same state

[00:50:41] that we found him in

[00:50:43] when the series started

[00:50:45] it was just really weird

[00:50:47] that's something that I really really dislike

[00:50:49] not just in this show but like in any show

[00:50:51] if we go on this journey

[00:50:53] for so many years

[00:50:55] we watch so many episodes

[00:50:57] and then you are going to leave your character

[00:50:59] seemingly lead character

[00:51:01] the same as he was

[00:51:03] why did I just do this

[00:51:05] this is one of my chief complaints with the show friends

[00:51:07] it goes on for 10 years

[00:51:09] and it literally just comes back to exactly

[00:51:11] where it was the first fucking episode

[00:51:13] I mean there is something to say about

[00:51:15] stories going full circle but

[00:51:17] here it went

[00:51:19] like Brian was the only one that kind of went full circle

[00:51:21] kind of predictable I guess

[00:51:23] because he's never gonna change right

[00:51:25] right exactly and what do I want

[00:51:27] growth I wanted to see Brian and Justin

[00:51:29] get together even as much as I hate

[00:51:31] those happy endings

[00:51:33] the happy ending of the UK version with Stuart and Vince

[00:51:35] as goofy as it was

[00:51:37] and bonkers of an ending

[00:51:39] it really worked for me

[00:51:41] you know what it was bold

[00:51:43] it tried something

[00:51:45] it tried something

[00:51:47] and you know it's like we're going to be

[00:51:49] outlandish with it

[00:51:51] and I went along with it and let's be honest

[00:51:53] it's depiction of

[00:51:55] US citizens at the very end

[00:51:57] is not far off

[00:51:59] alright that's all that we have for you

[00:52:01] at least for now you can check out

[00:52:03] 96 episodes that cover both

[00:52:05] US and UK along with

[00:52:07] the season wrap up episodes at

[00:52:09] stillqueersfolk.com or wherever you

[00:52:11] get your podcasts from. Thank you so much

[00:52:13] for listening all this time

[00:52:15] especially those listeners that have been there

[00:52:17] with us since the beginning

[00:52:19] even when we took our long

[00:52:21] breaks and still came

[00:52:23] back and still engaged

[00:52:25] we really appreciate it and

[00:52:27] who knows where this will take us

[00:52:29] just ignore season one

[00:52:31] and kind of didn't know what we're doing

[00:52:33] you know what

[00:52:35] season two fall in love

[00:52:37] and then go back to season one and then just have a laugh

[00:52:39] there is a queersfolk reboot

[00:52:41] coming up soon with Russell T. Davies

[00:52:43] attached to the project it takes place

[00:52:45] in the US though we haven't decided

[00:52:47] if we're going to cover it yet but you never know

[00:52:49] so keep in touch

[00:52:51] I'm intrigued

[00:52:53] one that's going to take place in New Orleans

[00:52:55] and that they're claiming

[00:52:57] that it's going to be more

[00:52:59] a group of friends but it seems that

[00:53:01] at least according to the description it is

[00:53:03] all wrapped around a tragedy which

[00:53:05] I don't really know why we have to continue

[00:53:07] to have our queer characters come together because of a tragedy

[00:53:09] I'm sure it would be much more

[00:53:11] interesting if it was just close to the UK

[00:53:13] where it's like it's their life

[00:53:15] and I think that would be a lot of fun but who knows

[00:53:17] so until we meet again I'm Patrick Randall

[00:53:19] and I'm Matt Dominguez

[00:53:23] Stillqueersfolk is a production of

[00:53:25] Slightly Unbalanced, executive producer

[00:53:27] Patrick Randall. That's me

[00:53:29] I wrote and performed this episode with Matt Dominguez

[00:53:31] and we made the show with love

[00:53:33] in Chicago