UK-2.3 UK Versus US Wrap Up Show

[00:00:00] Must be nice, I'll live it on Canal Street

[00:00:05] From Slightly Unbalanced we are Still Queer as Folk UK and US for this one episode

[00:00:12] I'm Patrick Randall and I'm at Dominguez

[00:00:14] Today we're going to be talking about UK vs US which series we think was the better of the two

[00:00:22] We've done 96 episodes between the US and UK shows so far

[00:00:27] This is an episode that I've been looking forward to doing since 2017

[00:00:33] I think when we did our first really rough episode covering the US version

[00:00:39] This is the showdown our listeners have been looking for

[00:00:42] US vs UK

[00:00:45] And it's like, I still remember to this day when you came up with this idea

[00:00:50] Like wanting to do a podcast about their show

[00:00:52] We were at Big Bull downtown

[00:00:55] We had our second bottle of Chardonnay

[00:01:00] We were like, yeah let's just do it, let's see what happens

[00:01:02] In Chardonnay?

[00:01:04] Yeah, there was some sort of white wine that we had in a, you know, that we had in a

[00:01:08] Classy girls

[00:01:10] You know, like we do in Big Bull

[00:01:13] And now it's like, you know, four years later

[00:01:17] And we don't eat in restaurants anymore

[00:01:19] We don't do that, no restaurants

[00:01:21] Don't get us wrong, we still drink

[00:01:25] As we speak

[00:01:27] We should have done a count of how much boxed wine we've gone through doing this podcast

[00:01:31] Oh, that would have been a good stat

[00:01:33] Yeah, that would have been really great to know

[00:01:36] Because trust me, if you go listen to those earlier episodes where we were bold enough

[00:01:41] To record, you know, two episodes

[00:01:46] You can tell when we've clearly gotten to like the tipping point of the boxed wine

[00:01:52] Yeah, I think that would be the even numbered episodes, right?

[00:01:56] Yes

[00:01:57] Because we're doing two at a time

[00:01:59] Yeah, we're like, oh we can do this, we can knock out two episodes whenever we record

[00:02:03] Woo

[00:02:04] We stay and then we kind of like meander

[00:02:07] And crack up

[00:02:08] And don't make a whole lot of sense in some parts

[00:02:12] Yeah, I like to tell people that if you really are into, like us

[00:02:16] Skip season one

[00:02:18] We're clearly a trainwreck in season one of the US version

[00:02:22] We get better though

[00:02:23] I look at the stats for downloads of the different episodes

[00:02:26] In season one, episode one being the first always gets just a ton of downloads

[00:02:32] And the next episode, not so many after that

[00:02:36] I think people listen to it and go, oh

[00:02:39] Well, hopefully not

[00:02:40] I think some of our reviews have been favorable to those who held out and gave us that chance

[00:02:47] But yeah, we

[00:02:49] Yeah

[00:02:50] I think we grew

[00:02:51] I think we grew

[00:02:52] So for this episode, I thought we would do a few games

[00:02:55] First up is what I'm calling this or that quick fire

[00:02:58] Where Matt and I will have to make a snap call on the UK versus the US show

[00:03:03] And different elements from them

[00:03:05] Then we're gonna play who would you do where we decide which character we're more interested in fucking

[00:03:12] I'm so excited for that one

[00:03:14] Next up after that is Stuart versus Brian

[00:03:17] Where Matt has to guess who set a certain quote

[00:03:20] And then finally we'll do our usual version of a pub quiz where I ask Matt

[00:03:25] 15 questions about Queersfolk UK and see what he comes up with

[00:03:29] And if he was paying attention to the 10 hours of microphone time that he gave us this season

[00:03:36] At the time, I was paying attention

[00:03:39] And then you throw these questions at me

[00:03:41] I haven't watched season one, episode one in four years

[00:03:49] But I'm sure I'm gonna get something right

[00:03:51] Well, these are all UK questions

[00:03:53] So I think you got a good sporting chance on these

[00:03:55] Sure

[00:03:56] Okay, so I've got 15 this or that

[00:03:58] UK versus US

[00:03:59] When I read them off, you must immediately answer which one you thought was overall better

[00:04:04] All right

[00:04:05] When we get to the end, we'll compare our scores and see who was the statistical winner

[00:04:10] Okay

[00:04:11] So let me give you a sample first just to make sure you understand the game

[00:04:13] All right

[00:04:14] I'll say the UK bit first and then the US one

[00:04:16] So I'll say something like Jeep or Corvette

[00:04:19] And then you give your answer

[00:04:20] No comments, just your answer

[00:04:22] Quickfire style

[00:04:23] Ready?

[00:04:24] Got it

[00:04:25] Let's do it

[00:04:31] Okay

[00:04:32] Stuart Allen Jones or Brian Kinney

[00:04:33] Stuart

[00:04:34] Vince Tyler or Michael Novotny-Bruckner

[00:04:36] Vince

[00:04:37] Nathan Maloney or Justin Taylor

[00:04:38] Justin

[00:04:39] Phillip Delaney or Ted Schmidt

[00:04:40] Ted

[00:04:41] Alexander Perry or Emmett Honeycutt

[00:04:43] Emmett

[00:04:44] Janice Maloney or Jennifer Taylor

[00:04:46] Jennifer

[00:04:47] Hazel Tyler or Debbie Novotny

[00:04:49] Hazel

[00:04:50] Donna or Daphne

[00:04:51] Donna

[00:04:52] Lisa and Romy or Melanie and Lindsay

[00:04:54] Lisa and Romy

[00:04:55] Canal Street or Fak Pitsburg-Gaber hood

[00:04:58] Canal Street

[00:05:00] Daz Collinson or Ethan Gold

[00:05:02] Ethan Gold

[00:05:04] Cameron Roberts or Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:06] DDC, Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:08] Nobody or Ben Buckner

[00:05:11] Ben

[00:05:12] Bernard or Uncle Vic

[00:05:14] Uncle Vic

[00:05:15] Christian Hobbs or Chris Hobbs

[00:05:17] Yes

[00:05:21] The UK sucks or the US sucks

[00:05:23] UK

[00:05:25] Okay

[00:05:26] So for me

[00:05:27] I had picked

[00:05:28] Stuart Allen Jones

[00:05:29] Vince Tyler

[00:05:30] Nathan Maloney

[00:05:31] Ted Schmidt

[00:05:32] Emmett Honeycutt

[00:05:33] Jennifer Taylor

[00:05:34] Hazel Tyler

[00:05:35] Lisa and Romy

[00:05:36] Canal Street

[00:05:37] Ethan Gold

[00:05:38] Dr. David Cameron

[00:05:39] Nobody

[00:05:40] Uncle Vic

[00:05:41] Christian Hobbs

[00:05:42] and UK sucks

[00:05:44] So that gave me

[00:05:46] UK 10

[00:05:48] US 5

[00:05:50] And you had Christian Hobbs and Chris Hobbs

[00:05:53] Oh yeah

[00:05:54] So do I give one for each?

[00:05:55] Yeah let's go ahead and do that

[00:05:56] Okay

[00:05:57] UK 7

[00:05:58] US 9

[00:06:00] You like the US series better

[00:06:02] Ouch

[00:06:03] I don't think I like the series better

[00:06:05] I liked individual parts better

[00:06:07] But I knew it was going to be close

[00:06:09] I knew it was going to be close

[00:06:11] So

[00:06:12] I had Stuart Allen Jones as a winner because

[00:06:15] I found his character just to be more believable

[00:06:18] He wasn't portrayed as a magical

[00:06:21] Uber gay

[00:06:22] And he really didn't do anything that would

[00:06:25] make me think he is a deplorable person

[00:06:28] Except for that weird firebombing thing

[00:06:31] Alexander's mother's car

[00:06:32] Why did you pick Stuart?

[00:06:33] For a lot of the reasons that you picked Stuart

[00:06:35] I loved the fact that he was much more

[00:06:38] A character that was on somewhat of a level playing field

[00:06:41] So then I believed in a lot of the friendships

[00:06:43] I believed the friendships a lot more

[00:06:45] There wasn't just putting him on a pedestal

[00:06:47] In a lot of ways

[00:06:49] You know it was fun to watch him

[00:06:51] Turn on the charm

[00:06:52] That I thought was a lot more believable

[00:06:54] Like then I understood why people would fall in love with him

[00:06:57] Or would want to sleep with him

[00:06:59] He could in fact

[00:07:01] Charmed the pants off people

[00:07:03] Whereas I thought Brian was such a turn off

[00:07:05] And such an egomaniac

[00:07:07] Like why would anyone want to be like

[00:07:09] Oh yeah then please do me

[00:07:11] Like no thank you

[00:07:12] Please do me

[00:07:14] We'd both picked Vince Tyler

[00:07:16] So I thought that Vince absolutely trounces

[00:07:19] Michael Nabotny

[00:07:20] If you look at the whole US series

[00:07:23] Michael comes off a bit schizophrenic

[00:07:26] Or I guess at best

[00:07:28] Multiple personalities

[00:07:30] He was just written so poorly that he became unbelievable

[00:07:33] As the baby Uber gay

[00:07:35] Vince just endeared himself to us

[00:07:37] Right from the start

[00:07:39] We were really rooting for him every step of the way

[00:07:42] And he just never put a bad foot forward

[00:07:44] Yeah I mean I mentioned that

[00:07:46] I think in the first episode of the UK

[00:07:49] Version that I just I found him so endearing

[00:07:52] And his like nerdyness

[00:07:54] Was such a turn on

[00:07:56] I just thought he was adorable

[00:07:58] Michael had this way of just running so hot and cold

[00:08:02] And running to extremes in his reactions to things

[00:08:05] And we kept critiquing it

[00:08:09] That he would always as his go to

[00:08:12] Be like well I'm gonna shit on Justin

[00:08:15] Why you were his best friend

[00:08:17] And comic partner not two seconds ago

[00:08:20] But apparently everything's still his fault

[00:08:22] Like get the fuck over yourself

[00:08:24] And again I just

[00:08:26] God Vince and that adorable accent

[00:08:29] So we were split on the next one

[00:08:32] I picked Nathan Maloney and you picked Justin Taylor

[00:08:35] And I just have to go with Nathan

[00:08:37] Because he seemed to get his shit together

[00:08:39] Faster than poor little Justin did

[00:08:42] After a while it just seemed like the US writers

[00:08:44] Were yo-yoing Justin all over the place

[00:08:47] And not really giving him a clear coherent narrative

[00:08:50] One moment he was wise the next minute

[00:08:53] He was whiny little boy

[00:08:55] I just thought that his growth as a character

[00:08:58] Was really really obtuse throughout the entire US series

[00:09:02] So Nathan Maloney for the win

[00:09:04] Justin I think it's funny that you think that

[00:09:08] Nathan got his shit together faster than Justin did

[00:09:11] Because I think Justin had a-

[00:09:14] I thought he popped more when it came to

[00:09:16] Finding his independence and finding his voice

[00:09:19] Than I think Nathan did

[00:09:21] Especially when he had people who were so supportive of him

[00:09:24] Like the way he treated his mother just pissed me off to no end

[00:09:27] Good point

[00:09:29] And the way he treated Donna

[00:09:31] The way he wanted to live this gay life

[00:09:35] I never- I always thought he was like

[00:09:37] Obviously trying to sell that he was bought into

[00:09:40] The whole gay fantasia a lot

[00:09:43] He's like that he was living that

[00:09:45] And it's like no you're putting on a show

[00:09:48] And we're all kind of seeing through it

[00:09:49] So why are you lying about it?

[00:09:50] Like these are your best friends

[00:09:52] It's okay

[00:09:54] And so I just- I found him kind of

[00:09:56] A little too grating for me

[00:09:58] Phil versus Ted was an easy one

[00:09:59] We both agreed on this one

[00:10:00] I think this was mostly because

[00:10:02] Phil was just killed off so quickly

[00:10:04] We didn't really know him

[00:10:06] My only complaint with Ted is that

[00:10:09] The US writers just couldn't get enough of wrecking his life

[00:10:13] Over and over and over

[00:10:15] That's another reason why I wanted to pick him

[00:10:17] Because he was such a punching bag for the series

[00:10:19] That I was like no I'm going to give you a win

[00:10:21] But wouldn't it have been nice to see Ted

[00:10:23] Just come out of the series more fully bagged as a person

[00:10:26] And not having gone through so much

[00:10:29] There's always- I think you find it in every series

[00:10:32] There's always going to be that character

[00:10:33] That they're going to put the brunt of bad things

[00:10:37] On one of them

[00:10:38] Like they're going to be that show's victim

[00:10:42] Well the next one was also we were in agreement on

[00:10:45] Emmett versus Alexander

[00:10:47] So Emmett Honeycutt clearly trounces him

[00:10:50] Alexander really didn't even need to be in this show at all

[00:10:53] You'll remember how many times I asked the question of why

[00:10:57] Alexander was in just about any scene he happened to be in

[00:11:00] With the exception of that first episode

[00:11:03] Where he gets off the plane

[00:11:05] And he was with the threesome with the undertaker

[00:11:08] That should have been it

[00:11:09] He should have gone

[00:11:10] Yeah should have just been like a guest star situation

[00:11:13] If anything I will give credit to the US series for finding

[00:11:16] A purpose for Emmett

[00:11:18] And I think that was a character that is probably the strongest

[00:11:21] One of the strongest characters that came out of the US version

[00:11:25] And a way to really give him his own voice

[00:11:28] You know from the UK counterpart

[00:11:31] Our next one was Janice Maloney or Jennifer Taylor

[00:11:34] And Jennifer Taylor had to have the win here

[00:11:37] Because she just stole every scene she was in

[00:11:39] Whereas Janice Maloney was really kind of

[00:11:42] Just an angst ridden mother

[00:11:44] Coping to deal with her newly out gay son

[00:11:47] But Jennifer Taylor became like ally

[00:11:50] Throughout the series

[00:11:53] So I liked that ride that she gave us

[00:11:55] And she wore like such great pantsuits

[00:11:57] She looked great

[00:11:58] I love how they dressed her

[00:12:00] They also allowed her to become her own independent person

[00:12:03] She also started you know

[00:12:05] Get that young dick

[00:12:07] Oh my god

[00:12:09] Let's talk about that

[00:12:11] Woo

[00:12:13] Like good for her

[00:12:15] She got herself a job

[00:12:17] She dumped that asshole

[00:12:19] Yes props Jennifer

[00:12:21] Next one was Hazel Tyler and Debbie Navotny

[00:12:23] And we both picked Hazel

[00:12:25] I liked Hazel much better than Debbie

[00:12:27] Because Debbie always came off as

[00:12:29] This benevolently bitchy know it all character

[00:12:32] And I didn't like that

[00:12:34] I might have some killer scenes

[00:12:36] But I think Hazel is a better mom

[00:12:38] Yeah and I think that really came down to

[00:12:40] The way Hazel was cast

[00:12:42] Being much closer to Vincent age

[00:12:45] At least in my interpretation of it

[00:12:47] She's much closer to him in age

[00:12:49] So I understood what their mother son

[00:12:51] Dynamic was

[00:12:53] And she had a way of

[00:12:55] Being involved in his life

[00:12:57] And involved in the things he did

[00:12:59] Without it feeling too intrusive

[00:13:01] And not too over the top

[00:13:03] We both agreed on the next one too

[00:13:05] Which was Donna vs Daphne

[00:13:07] Even though both of them have minor parts

[00:13:09] Donna just never hesitated to tell off Nathan

[00:13:11] Like

[00:13:13] When she put him in his place with that line

[00:13:15] I'm black and I'm a girl

[00:13:17] Try that for a week

[00:13:19] She also dropped everything to go to London

[00:13:21] With Nathan

[00:13:23] And she's also never heard from again

[00:13:25] If you remember she

[00:13:27] Daphne was really just there for Justin

[00:13:29] To have a conversation with

[00:13:31] To tell us more about Justin

[00:13:33] So the Daphne character

[00:13:35] Herself really didn't go anywhere

[00:13:37] In this series and that was kind of disappointing

[00:13:39] Because we liked her

[00:13:41] She had some good scenes

[00:13:43] But at the end of the day

[00:13:45] Donna was the much more impactful character

[00:13:47] I think

[00:13:49] Cosine, all of that

[00:13:51] Okay let's move on to the lesbians then

[00:13:53] They were there, I don't have much else

[00:13:55] Well the UK lesbians won for me

[00:13:57] But on a technicality though

[00:13:59] There just simply wasn't enough airtime

[00:14:01] For them to have serious problems

[00:14:03] Whereas the US lesbians

[00:14:05] Had tons of contrived drama

[00:14:07] Some of it good but much of it was kind of head scratching

[00:14:09] Like why are you doing this

[00:14:11] To these people

[00:14:13] And is this real?

[00:14:15] That type of thing so

[00:14:17] Yeah they were minor characters

[00:14:19] I thought that was always an issue

[00:14:21] That I had with the US version

[00:14:23] Was that okay so we have these lesbian characters

[00:14:25] But we don't treat them

[00:14:27] Basically as we do our gay characters

[00:14:29] And

[00:14:31] They also were given the most graphic

[00:14:33] Sex scenes when the show

[00:14:35] Really wanted to be a focus on the gay men

[00:14:37] I saw a lot more

[00:14:39] Female nudity and gratuitous

[00:14:41] Female nudity than I thought was

[00:14:43] Really necessary

[00:14:45] Canal Street vs

[00:14:47] Fake Pittsburgh gayhood

[00:14:49] And I had Canal Street for the win so did you

[00:14:51] Mostly

[00:14:53] For me this is because it's a real

[00:14:55] And many of the bars and clubs

[00:14:57] In the show are actually real

[00:14:59] The US show never really had a

[00:15:01] Pittsburgh identity

[00:15:03] Because it was all made up I don't know

[00:15:05] It was just kind of this fantasy land

[00:15:07] And it just didn't come off as

[00:15:09] Something we could go visit on holiday

[00:15:11] Yeah and I think after

[00:15:13] Thankfully getting to travel

[00:15:15] To England

[00:15:17] Before all this

[00:15:19] Made me really appreciate the UK setting

[00:15:21] So much more

[00:15:23] And

[00:15:25] It really made me miss London

[00:15:27] Really miss London so

[00:15:29] Shout out to Canal Street

[00:15:31] I also never reigned in Manchester

[00:15:33] Which I really liked

[00:15:35] No Reigns though

[00:15:37] Ethan Gold or Daz Collinson

[00:15:39] And Ethan Gold got the win for me

[00:15:41] The story of Justin and Ethan

[00:15:43] I think was one of the better arcs

[00:15:45] In the US scene

[00:15:47] Ethan just had a lot going for him

[00:15:49] Daz was just a twat

[00:15:51] As Nathan told his mother

[00:15:57] Yes, exactly. Ethan Gold

[00:15:59] Was accomplished musician

[00:16:01] He was incredibly charming

[00:16:03] He was incredibly sexy

[00:16:05] Daz was just sort of there

[00:16:07] Daz just hit this annoying point

[00:16:09] When we first met him we were like

[00:16:11] Okay that's cool

[00:16:13] And then after a while it's like

[00:16:15] Oh shut up you're such a twat

[00:16:17] Why are you here

[00:16:19] The next one we agreed on

[00:16:21] And this one if listeners

[00:16:23] If you've ever listened to our US series

[00:16:25] You'll remember that I had a love hate relationship

[00:16:27] With Dr. David Cameron

[00:16:29] But he gets the win here

[00:16:31] Because even though he was

[00:16:33] Something of a thorn

[00:16:35] In Michael's side

[00:16:37] He was more likable in my mind

[00:16:39] And he was

[00:16:41] Better to his youthful boyfriend

[00:16:43] Than Cameron Roberts was

[00:16:45] To Vince

[00:16:47] And he was more into

[00:16:49] Michael than Cameron was

[00:16:51] Into Vince

[00:16:53] It was almost as if Cameron saw

[00:16:55] Vince as a project

[00:16:57] I'm going to find all the ways

[00:16:59] I'm going to better you

[00:17:01] Whereas I think Dr. David Cameron

[00:17:03] Had a very genuine love

[00:17:05] For Michael

[00:17:07] It was more like he treated him

[00:17:09] Than wanted to improve his life

[00:17:11] To get to his level

[00:17:13] Next one we disagreed on

[00:17:15] This was nobody or Ben Bruckner

[00:17:17] Ben Bruckner started out

[00:17:19] The US show as just an outstanding character

[00:17:21] And then he was almost

[00:17:23] Immediately marginalized into

[00:17:25] Like Michael's hype man

[00:17:27] He should have been killed off

[00:17:29] In those first couple of episodes

[00:17:31] Because you remember early on

[00:17:33] When Michael was trying to cope

[00:17:35] With dating an HIV positive man

[00:17:37] Those were some of the best

[00:17:39] Storylines of that particular season

[00:17:41] But then they didn't really do

[00:17:43] Anything else with Ben Bruckner

[00:17:45] And that's why I just had to go

[00:17:47] With nobody

[00:17:49] The show would have been better without him

[00:17:51] Or if he was killed off

[00:17:53] You say that but then I don't think we would have had

[00:17:55] A strong connection

[00:17:57] When Hunter enters the picture

[00:17:59] And I think that gives Ben such a greater purpose

[00:18:01] Because then he is able to be

[00:18:03] Not only that father to him

[00:18:05] But also that figure that

[00:18:07] Allows Hunter to see that you can live

[00:18:09] With HIV and live fine

[00:18:11] Live a normal life

[00:18:13] You can live a life that is

[00:18:15] Not just

[00:18:17] That is already determined because you have a chronic illness

[00:18:19] So I really appreciate that

[00:18:21] I really appreciate his chest, his arms

[00:18:25] So yeah, I will choose Ben

[00:18:27] Well that's a good segue into the next one

[00:18:29] Which was Bernard versus Vic

[00:18:31] And for me Uncle Vic wins

[00:18:33] By a game aisle

[00:18:35] Because Bernard was like one of those muppets

[00:18:37] In the balcony

[00:18:39] Uncle Vic was one of the standout

[00:18:41] U.S. characters partially due to

[00:18:43] Jack Weatherall's portrayal of the character

[00:18:45] But you remember they killed

[00:18:47] Off Uncle Vic to bring us Hunter

[00:18:49] Uncle Vic left us way too soon

[00:18:51] Absolutely, I thought he was always funny

[00:18:55] I never found his advice to Michael

[00:18:57] Contrived

[00:18:59] I always thought it was always poignant

[00:19:01] And that's also just the testament

[00:19:03] To Jack Weatherall finding the

[00:19:05] Heart and humanity in anything they gave

[00:19:07] Uncle Vic

[00:19:09] We split on the next one

[00:19:11] Christian Hobbs versus Chris Hobbs

[00:19:13] I had to go with UK Christian Hobbs over U.S. Chris Hobbs

[00:19:15] I actually believed

[00:19:17] That Christian Hobbs was gay

[00:19:19] And secretly into Nathan

[00:19:21] And I think that's a better story than Justin

[00:19:23] Just jacking off a clearly

[00:19:25] Straight character in the U.S. series

[00:19:27] So yes to that

[00:19:29] But also I thought

[00:19:31] The hand job scene of the U.S. version

[00:19:33] Was hotter

[00:19:35] Oh I thought you said that you like the UK version better

[00:19:37] I'm gonna have to check the tape

[00:19:39] No, let's check that

[00:19:41] Because this is why

[00:19:43] I had to say yes to both

[00:19:45] Because I think they're both hot

[00:19:47] But there's something about

[00:19:49] Jacking off a straight guy

[00:19:51] But then there's just something to Chris

[00:19:53] The way he gives into the pleasure

[00:19:55] And

[00:19:57] Give me a moment

[00:19:59] I'm thinking about the scenes again

[00:20:01] To add that one to rotation

[00:20:05] The last category of our

[00:20:07] Quickfire was UK sex

[00:20:09] Versus U.S. sex

[00:20:11] And I thought the UK sex

[00:20:13] Was better because it was

[00:20:15] Well moderated and well

[00:20:17] Time. We used to joke about

[00:20:19] The U.S. shows always having to have at least

[00:20:21] One sexual interlude

[00:20:23] Set to music

[00:20:25] In the UK sex was implicit

[00:20:27] For all the characters in the U.S.

[00:20:29] It was explicit

[00:20:31] And that's why I really saw the UK

[00:20:33] Sex to be a lot more interesting

[00:20:35] The best example of why

[00:20:37] UK sex worked so much more for me

[00:20:39] Was that moment when

[00:20:41] Nathan and Stuart

[00:20:43] Go up to

[00:20:45] Vince's room and they get each other

[00:20:47] Off in the most animalistic

[00:20:49] Way and it was just

[00:20:51] That was hot

[00:20:53] Nothing, nothing

[00:20:55] Maybe that was explicit

[00:20:57] Nothing in the

[00:20:59] U.S.

[00:21:01] Fire editing

[00:21:03] Hyped up

[00:21:05] Video editing kind of situation

[00:21:07] That they had

[00:21:09] Ever really matched what the UK version did

[00:21:11] With that.

[00:21:14] This is so curious, folks. Stick around.

[00:21:16] We've got more to come.

[00:21:44] Our next segment is called

[00:21:46] Who Would You Do?

[00:21:48] Or basically Who Would You Rather Fuck?

[00:21:50] Since we're both

[00:21:52] Verse, what kind of

[00:21:54] We can take this as

[00:21:56] Robotomy and remember, this is just

[00:21:58] Fucking so basically

[00:22:00] A slutty beauty pageant

[00:22:02] Unlike what we just talked about with each character

[00:22:04] So I'll do the quick fire again.

[00:22:06] Ready? Yep.

[00:22:08] Stuart Allen Jones or Brian Kinney?

[00:22:10] Vince Tyler or Michael Navotny-Bruckner?

[00:22:12] Vince. Nathan Maloney or

[00:22:14] Justin Taylor?

[00:22:16] Justin. Phillip Delaney or Ted Schmitt?

[00:22:18] Philip. Alexander Perry or Emmett

[00:22:20] Honeycutt? Emmett. Daz Collinson or

[00:22:22] Ethan Gold? Ethan. Cameron Roberts

[00:22:24] Dr. David Cameron.

[00:22:26] Nobody or Ben Bruckner?

[00:22:28] Ben Bruckner. Christian Hobbs or

[00:22:30] Chris Hobbs? You can't pick both.

[00:22:32] Yes.

[00:22:34] You son of a bitch. You knew what I was going to do.

[00:22:38] Okay, I'll be honest. I'll say Christian.

[00:22:40] Okay, you had

[00:22:42] 5 US and

[00:22:44] 4 UK. Oh well, yeah.

[00:22:46] I had Brian Kinney over

[00:22:48] Stuart, Vince

[00:22:50] over Michael, Nathan over Justin

[00:22:52] Ted over Phillip, Emmett

[00:22:54] over Alexander, Ethan

[00:22:56] over Daz, Dr. David Cameron

[00:22:58] over Cameron Roberts, nobody

[00:23:00] over Ben Bruckner

[00:23:02] and Christian Hobbs versus Chris

[00:23:04] Hobbs so I had

[00:23:06] US beating UK 5-4

[00:23:08] and so did you.

[00:23:10] Let's take these one by one. The first one

[00:23:12] was a tough one because I find Stuart

[00:23:14] overall more attractive but I think Brian

[00:23:16] is kind of the sexier

[00:23:18] of the two. There's just something

[00:23:20] about him that I found to have a little

[00:23:22] more magnetism.

[00:23:24] I have the opposite feeling.

[00:23:26] Oh. I think

[00:23:28] Stuart is as much

[00:23:30] into getting pleasure

[00:23:32] and giving pleasure where I

[00:23:34] think Brian was much more into just

[00:23:36] getting pleasure. I had

[00:23:38] no debate on Vince versus

[00:23:40] Michael. I used to daydream about

[00:23:42] Vince and Michael just always seemed

[00:23:44] a little too straight for me.

[00:23:46] Oh, I've said

[00:23:48] I'm in love with Vince today. I'm in love

[00:23:50] with him. Everything about him is perfect. Are you going to write

[00:23:52] fan mail to Craig Kelly?

[00:23:54] Maybe. Yeah, I'll try

[00:23:56] and find my two

[00:23:58] cassette VHS of Titanic

[00:24:00] and

[00:24:02] said to like, I remember

[00:24:04] your scene.

[00:24:06] I went to find that scene because I did

[00:24:08] a drop into the last episode

[00:24:10] when we talked about him. I don't think you listen to these

[00:24:12] episodes do you?

[00:24:14] You don't?

[00:24:16] You don't listen to your work.

[00:24:18] I trust my listeners too.

[00:24:20] But I found that one of his scenes

[00:24:22] got cut and there was

[00:24:24] apparently another one where

[00:24:26] it was just the two of them in the radio room, but that's

[00:24:28] not in the print that I had of the

[00:24:30] movie. It was just him walking up

[00:24:32] to the captain saying, there's ice

[00:24:34] ahead. Excuse me, sir.

[00:24:36] Another ice wall. This one's from the

[00:24:38] northern. Thank you, smart.

[00:24:40] When that's it, I

[00:24:42] wonder if

[00:24:44] since then something, some things have been

[00:24:46] trimmed a little bit.

[00:24:48] Yeah, it was in the script,

[00:24:50] but I didn't have a shooting script.

[00:24:52] I just found a script.

[00:24:54] His second scene was not in

[00:24:56] the actual picture.

[00:24:58] Okay, so next one. Nathan Maloney or Justin

[00:25:00] Taylor? I had Nathan Maloney.

[00:25:02] You had Justin Taylor.

[00:25:04] I picked Nathan because first of all

[00:25:06] he's taller.

[00:25:08] Those abs on him are just

[00:25:10] killer and those frames of

[00:25:12] film in the first few episodes

[00:25:14] of his butt

[00:25:16] and the twinkle in his eye.

[00:25:18] It just far outpaces that

[00:25:20] kind of short, rolly-poly Justin

[00:25:22] Taylor look.

[00:25:24] Remember when he was a go-go dancer and we were kind of like,

[00:25:26] ooh.

[00:25:28] So Nathan for the win. It's the 15

[00:25:30] year old thing that kills it for me.

[00:25:32] He turned 16 in the show.

[00:25:34] That's a very good

[00:25:38] point though.

[00:25:40] Did I just identify as a creepy old man?

[00:25:42] Little bit.

[00:25:44] Anything else you'd like to share about?

[00:25:46] 17 year old Justin Taylor?

[00:25:50] No.

[00:25:52] Maybe I'll have to edit this segment.

[00:25:54] I'd like to think that maybe he would draw me

[00:25:56] at one point.

[00:25:58] The next one.

[00:26:00] You picked Philip Delaney over Ted Schmitt.

[00:26:02] I had Ted Schmitt because

[00:26:04] we never really got a good look

[00:26:06] at film, but I remember commenting

[00:26:08] a few times on how hot Ted

[00:26:10] was at certain points in the

[00:26:12] U.S. show.

[00:26:14] He went on such a wild arc that

[00:26:16] he was kind of all over the board,

[00:26:18] but there were several scenes where

[00:26:20] Ted's body was just

[00:26:22] banging and I was like,

[00:26:24] oh, Ted, come hither.

[00:26:26] Was that when

[00:26:28] he was in his crystal phase or?

[00:26:30] I think it was after

[00:26:32] the crystal phase and after

[00:26:34] he had his fake plastic surgery.

[00:26:36] Oh, I see.

[00:26:38] There was one scene when he's walking through the park

[00:26:40] with Emmett and we both went, whoa,

[00:26:42] what's going on there?

[00:26:44] Because all of a sudden he just looked amazing.

[00:26:46] It's true.

[00:26:48] No, Philip,

[00:26:50] I feel like he would care more

[00:26:52] and probably not wear awful boxers.

[00:26:54] Oh, good point.

[00:26:56] Very good point.

[00:26:58] Next one was Alexander versus Emmett.

[00:27:00] I kind of feel the same way about Emmett

[00:27:02] as I did Ted.

[00:27:04] Those scenes when Emmett was a porn star

[00:27:06] and we both went to the park.

[00:27:08] We never got a really good look at Alexander though.

[00:27:10] You're right, exactly.

[00:27:12] My assumption is that Emmett

[00:27:14] can give as well as he can take.

[00:27:16] Well,

[00:27:18] at least

[00:27:20] and we all know that he can certainly take it

[00:27:22] after we watched him have sex with Drew.

[00:27:24] Oh yeah, Drew Boyd, the professional footballer.

[00:27:28] The next one

[00:27:30] we obviously agreed on,

[00:27:32] that was Ethan Gold over Dows Collinson.

[00:27:34] Ethan didn't have that soul patch on his chin.

[00:27:36] I probably would have sent him fan mail.

[00:27:38] I found him that hot.

[00:27:40] Oh yeah, it's like you just need to cover it

[00:27:42] with your hand and then do everything else.

[00:27:46] As soon as he starts playing that violin,

[00:27:48] it's like take me.

[00:27:50] I remember he was playing the violin when

[00:27:52] he woke up Justin to play the violin.

[00:27:54] We were like, what?

[00:27:56] Like, oh my god,

[00:27:58] could you be any hotter?

[00:28:00] So the Camerons, Dr. David Cameron wins for me.

[00:28:02] This was close though.

[00:28:04] It could have gone either way.

[00:28:06] I wouldn't walk away from either of the Camerons.

[00:28:08] I loved

[00:28:10] the mid-century modern home that he would give me.

[00:28:12] Architecture is perfect mid-century modern home.

[00:28:14] Exactly.

[00:28:16] And I know that

[00:28:18] he had that little indiscretion

[00:28:20] in the bath house when Brian saw him.

[00:28:22] Oh right.

[00:28:24] Then it would just be like, no, Dr. Cameron,

[00:28:26] if that's what you want to do, let's go.

[00:28:28] The next one,

[00:28:30] nobody or Ben Breckner

[00:28:32] and Ben Breckner never really

[00:28:34] did anything for me.

[00:28:36] I'm just not into that Jim Bunny

[00:28:38] hulked out,

[00:28:40] steroid look that he was

[00:28:42] vibing. Contradict me.

[00:28:44] I'll take it. I'll take it all

[00:28:46] night long.

[00:28:48] The final one we both picked Christian Hobbes

[00:28:50] after much debate by you.

[00:28:52] I thought those scenes where he's

[00:28:54] awkwardly hitting on Nathan

[00:28:56] or what did it for me.

[00:28:58] One time in the pub where he looks across

[00:29:00] and he gives him that smile

[00:29:02] or that time in the hallway at school

[00:29:04] where he's kind of acting hurt

[00:29:06] that Nathan wasn't paying attention to him.

[00:29:08] I just thought that Chris Hobbes

[00:29:10] in the US series was just a random

[00:29:12] annoying jock. Didn't like him at all.

[00:29:14] Much less of a

[00:29:16] chance that Christian Hobbes

[00:29:18] would hate crime me.

[00:29:20] So that's how I picked.

[00:29:22] Fair enough.

[00:29:24] We're going to do one thing where

[00:29:26] I didn't give you that in the show

[00:29:28] outline, but we're going to do

[00:29:30] two very quick fuck Mary kills.

[00:29:32] So I'm going to name three people and you have to say

[00:29:34] which one you would fuck, which one you would marry

[00:29:36] and which one you would kill. Okay.

[00:29:38] Stuart Vence Nathan.

[00:29:40] Stuart Vence Nathan.

[00:29:42] Fuck Stuart Mary

[00:29:44] Vence Kill Nathan. Okay.

[00:29:46] Brian Michael Justin.

[00:29:48] Fuck

[00:29:50] Brian Mary Justin Kill Michael.

[00:29:52] Okay. So for me, it would have been

[00:29:54] fuck Nathan Mary Vence

[00:29:56] Kill Stuart.

[00:29:58] Oh, okay.

[00:30:00] For the US, for me, it would have been

[00:30:02] fuck Brian Mary Justin

[00:30:04] kill Michael.

[00:30:06] Yep. We agree there.

[00:30:08] Like that one was hard.

[00:30:10] We'll be back with more still course.

[00:30:15] As is our custom

[00:30:50] at the end of each series, I challenge

[00:30:52] Matt to a pub quiz about things that

[00:30:54] happened in the series.

[00:30:56] I've got 15 questions ready to go

[00:30:58] and I don't have to answer these

[00:31:00] because I wrote them.

[00:31:04] I should have flipped the script and said

[00:31:06] Patrick, I had 15 questions.

[00:31:08] You got it. You should have

[00:31:10] you threatened to do that in season

[00:31:12] four or five of us.

[00:31:14] You never did that. No.

[00:31:16] Okay. So you got to answer these as quick as possible.

[00:31:18] No dwelling.

[00:31:20] If you'd like, you can say pass

[00:31:22] and we'll come back to the question

[00:31:24] at the end.

[00:31:26] Okay. Okay. All right. Ready?

[00:31:28] No, but here we go.

[00:31:30] You'll do fine. How old is Nathan Maloney

[00:31:32] when the show starts? 15.

[00:31:34] It's 15 aren't you, Nate? What birthday

[00:31:36] did Vince celebrate where Cameron bought him

[00:31:38] a car? 30.

[00:31:40] What kind of car did Cameron give

[00:31:42] Vince for his birthday? Oh, it was

[00:31:44] kind of a junker.

[00:31:46] I can't remember the exact model though.

[00:31:48] It's just a mini. How old is Stuart?

[00:31:50] 29.

[00:31:52] What country is Stuart from?

[00:31:54] Scotland.

[00:31:56] What is Nathan's sister's name?

[00:31:58] Oh, God. Pass.

[00:32:00] What is Stuart's father's name?

[00:32:02] Pass. What is Cameron's occupation?

[00:32:04] He's an accountant. Who the fuck

[00:32:06] is Martin Brooks? Who the fuck

[00:32:08] is Martin Brooks?

[00:32:10] He was Stuart's client.

[00:32:12] Whose ID does Nathan

[00:32:14] use to get into Babylon on the first

[00:32:16] night?

[00:32:18] Oh my God, Bernard.

[00:32:20] What's your name? Bernard Thomas.

[00:32:22] Date of birth 1946.

[00:32:24] Looking good Bernard.

[00:32:26] Eight quid. Who is

[00:32:28] Romy going to marry? Oh, the

[00:32:30] uh, gosh, the foreign guy.

[00:32:32] I don't remember his name.

[00:32:36] Lance. Lance Ampelmann. Nice to meet you.

[00:32:38] What street is Stuart's series one

[00:32:40] flat on?

[00:32:42] Oh, Canal Street.

[00:32:44] What do they go back to yours?

[00:32:46] Stuart.

[00:32:48] What street is Stuart's series two flat on?

[00:32:50] Uh, maybe that one's Canal Street.

[00:32:52] Must be nice.

[00:32:54] You know living on Canal Street.

[00:32:56] What is Stuart and Romy's

[00:32:58] baby's name?

[00:33:00] Ooh.

[00:33:02] It's not Gus.

[00:33:04] It's someone I

[00:33:06] pass.

[00:33:08] Name a sex act that Nathan

[00:33:10] and his mother have in common.

[00:33:12] A sex act that they have in common?

[00:33:14] Wow.

[00:33:16] Oh, Anal. Well, I'm not trying it again.

[00:33:18] The ass thing.

[00:33:20] What pop singer did Daz claim to dress up as?

[00:33:22] Kylie. We did fancy dress.

[00:33:24] I was Britney Spears.

[00:33:26] I've done her Hollywood show bar.

[00:33:28] We'll go back to the ones you passed. What is Nathan's sister's name?

[00:33:30] Um, Molly.

[00:33:32] It's Helen I'm worried about.

[00:33:34] She's 10 years old.

[00:33:36] What is Stuart's father's name?

[00:33:38] John.

[00:33:40] What is Stuart and Romy's baby's name?

[00:33:42] Bartholomew.

[00:33:44] Okay, let me add these up here.

[00:33:48] You got eight right.

[00:33:50] Better than I expected.

[00:33:52] And seven wrong.

[00:33:54] That's passing.

[00:33:56] Okay. So the ones you missed,

[00:33:58] Stuart is from Ireland.

[00:34:00] Oh.

[00:34:02] Nathan's sister is named Helen.

[00:34:04] Stuart's father's name is Clive.

[00:34:06] Romy was going to marry Lance

[00:34:08] Amonpa.

[00:34:10] Season one, Stuart lived on Mariner's Court.

[00:34:12] In season two, they lived on Canal Street.

[00:34:14] You got that one right?

[00:34:16] Stuart and Romy's baby's name is

[00:34:18] Alfred.

[00:34:20] Oh, Alfie.

[00:34:22] Daz claimed to dress up as Britney Spears.

[00:34:24] That's bullshit.

[00:34:26] Anyway.

[00:34:28] You got those sucks out.

[00:34:30] They were close to Britney. Yes.

[00:34:32] They both did anal, not with each other.

[00:34:34] No, but I guess I remember when

[00:34:36] she just came over and she was talking about how they tried it.

[00:34:38] Okay.

[00:34:40] The next game is called Stuart versus Brian.

[00:34:42] And I've got ten quotes from

[00:34:44] either Stuart Alan Jones or Brian Kinney.

[00:34:46] I'll read them to you and you have to

[00:34:48] pick who said which one.

[00:34:50] Okay? All right. Those pens.

[00:34:52] I've got to get rid of those pens.

[00:34:54] Stuart, it's the pens.

[00:34:56] I've got to get rid of the pens. Jesus Christ.

[00:34:58] Is there no one left in the world straight?

[00:35:00] Brian. Jesus Christ.

[00:35:02] Is there no one straight left in the world?

[00:35:04] The rumor is right, but unless I'm fucking you,

[00:35:06] it is none of your business.

[00:35:08] You're never to play violin music in my presence again.

[00:35:10] Brian.

[00:35:12] And you're never to play violin music in my

[00:35:14] presence again.

[00:35:16] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.

[00:35:18] Brian.

[00:35:20] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.

[00:35:22] I need to lay down.

[00:35:24] Just tell her that you take it up the ass

[00:35:26] and get out of there.

[00:35:28] Brian.

[00:35:30] Fuck's sake, just tell her you take it up the ass

[00:35:32] and get out of there.

[00:35:34] I'm a cocksucker. I'm queer.

[00:35:36] And to anyone who takes pity

[00:35:38] or offense, I say

[00:35:40] I'm a cocksucker.

[00:35:42] I'm queer.

[00:35:44] And to anyone

[00:35:46] who takes pity

[00:35:48] or offense,

[00:35:50] I say judge yourself.

[00:35:52] Lesbian letters.

[00:35:54] Can I read them?

[00:35:58] I'll say Brian.

[00:36:00] Lesbian letters.

[00:36:02] Can I read them?

[00:36:04] So, are you coming or going?

[00:36:06] Or coming and then going?

[00:36:08] Or coming and staying?

[00:36:10] Brian.

[00:36:12] So are you coming or going?

[00:36:14] Or coming and then going?

[00:36:16] Or coming

[00:36:18] and staying?

[00:36:20] My world's so fucking huge.

[00:36:22] Ooh, Brian.

[00:36:24] My world's so fucking huge!

[00:36:26] I don't believe in love.

[00:36:28] I believe in fucking.

[00:36:30] It's honest. It's efficient.

[00:36:32] You get in and out with a maximum

[00:36:34] of pleasure and a minimum

[00:36:36] of bullshit.

[00:36:38] I don't believe in love.

[00:36:40] I believe in fucking.

[00:36:42] It's honest. It's efficient.

[00:36:44] You get in and out with a maximum

[00:36:46] of pleasure and a minimum

[00:36:48] of bullshit.

[00:36:50] Okay.

[00:36:52] He didn't do so hot.

[00:36:54] Okay, I thought

[00:36:56] I was going to have like some

[00:36:58] Britishisms that I could like latch on to

[00:37:00] to get it

[00:37:02] Stuart. But you were clever.

[00:37:04] Yeah, I was careful to take this out.

[00:37:06] You were clever with these.

[00:37:08] Okay, so let's see.

[00:37:10] You got one, two, three,

[00:37:12] four, right.

[00:37:14] Out of ten.

[00:37:16] Oof, oof.

[00:37:18] So Jesus Christ, is there no one left

[00:37:20] straight in this world? That was clearly Stuart.

[00:37:22] Talking to Martin Brooks.

[00:37:24] The rumor is right, but unless

[00:37:26] I'm fucking you, it is none of your business.

[00:37:28] That was Brian talking to Gardner Vance, his new boss.

[00:37:32] Just tell her that you take it up the ass

[00:37:34] and get out of there. That was

[00:37:36] Stuart yelling at Vince when

[00:37:38] Vince was on that date with Rosalie.

[00:37:40] Okay.

[00:37:42] I'm a cocksucker, I'm a queer, and to anyone who takes pity

[00:37:44] or offense, I say judge yourself.

[00:37:46] That was season five episode one

[00:37:48] of the US series when

[00:37:50] Brian decides to

[00:37:52] reopen Babylon after it blows up.

[00:37:54] Lesbian letters, can I read them?

[00:37:56] That was Stuart in the park with Lisa.

[00:37:58] My world so fucking huge

[00:38:00] was Stuart and

[00:38:02] I don't believe in love, I believe in fucking

[00:38:04] that one's obviously Brian.

[00:38:06] So good job Matt.

[00:38:08] You know your characters.

[00:38:10] Womp, womp.

[00:38:12] I can tell you that either one of them said it.

[00:38:16] Still course folk.

[00:38:18] Be right back.

[00:38:40] Okay, finally, I just wanted

[00:38:42] to talk generally about the two shows.

[00:38:44] Something that we found with our

[00:38:46] US audience is that

[00:38:48] they are quite rabid

[00:38:50] compared to the UK audience.

[00:38:52] The comments from listeners

[00:38:54] of the UK series were more often than not

[00:38:56] giving us compliments or ideas

[00:38:58] for the podcast or

[00:39:00] even bits of information

[00:39:02] about things that we either missed

[00:39:04] or we just didn't pay attention to.

[00:39:06] The US listeners seemed out

[00:39:08] for blood sometimes because we were critiquing

[00:39:10] the show and not being

[00:39:12] fanboys.

[00:39:14] We had always envisioned this show

[00:39:16] to be

[00:39:18] how does this show hold up

[00:39:20] so many years later

[00:39:22] given that

[00:39:24] a lot has changed in the world from

[00:39:26] 2000 when this show was considered

[00:39:28] groundbreaking

[00:39:30] and edgy

[00:39:32] and all the superlatives to make it seem like

[00:39:34] it was going to be an alternative show

[00:39:36] it was on that

[00:39:38] premium cable

[00:39:40] and

[00:39:42] there was a lot of hype around it

[00:39:44] and I'm sure

[00:39:46] Patrick you can speak to it because you were

[00:39:48] watching the show when it was airing at the time

[00:39:50] Go ahead, you can say it.

[00:39:52] I wasn't going to say

[00:39:54] distinguished but okay we can go with that

[00:39:56] Thanks.

[00:39:58] There is

[00:40:00] I come from a different

[00:40:02] generation of people who

[00:40:04] still find the show

[00:40:06] it's sort of your

[00:40:08] entry into a world

[00:40:10] but it also can create

[00:40:12] a skewed view

[00:40:14] of that world.

[00:40:16] Part of that comes down to the critiquing

[00:40:18] of saying okay now in 2000

[00:40:20] probably amazing and great

[00:40:22] and no one could possibly say a bad thing

[00:40:24] about it or maybe not a bad thing

[00:40:26] but there are a lot of

[00:40:28] images, there's a lot of

[00:40:30] storylines that would

[00:40:32] not hold up today

[00:40:34] there would be

[00:40:36] a lot of discussion saying

[00:40:38] I can't believe they put this in the show

[00:40:40] and

[00:40:42] I thought we were always going to be very

[00:40:44] transparent when we talked about it

[00:40:46] and then it came out

[00:40:48] a lot more in the latter seasons

[00:40:50] which we always knew we were going to have a little

[00:40:52] trouble with because we knew the show became

[00:40:54] a little pre-chier, it did not have

[00:40:56] a blueprint

[00:40:58] of the UK series

[00:41:00] to continue to adapt

[00:41:02] and it went off on its own

[00:41:04] we know that writing rooms changed

[00:41:06] we know that directors changed

[00:41:08] Russell T. Davies no longer was

[00:41:10] really involved in it so

[00:41:12] yeah it became its own thing

[00:41:14] and we thought it suffered for it

[00:41:16] and we said so.

[00:41:18] A pretty common complaint from our US

[00:41:20] listeners was that they thought

[00:41:22] we didn't like the show

[00:41:24] but the fact is

[00:41:26] I do like it as a whole

[00:41:28] Why else would we spend 4 and a half years

[00:41:30] talking about it? I mean it was required viewing

[00:41:32] when it was airing and even afterwards

[00:41:34] but it has problems

[00:41:36] some of those problems are

[00:41:38] casual and even overt racism

[00:41:40] in some places or

[00:41:42] what somebody could objectively judge to be

[00:41:44] just very poor writing

[00:41:46] in storytelling but that doesn't mean

[00:41:48] that we don't like the show as a whole

[00:41:50] it had problems

[00:41:52] and those were the things that we wanted to talk about

[00:41:54] and a lot of people said oh well this is just

[00:41:56] a book report on the screenwriting

[00:41:58] and well yeah because

[00:42:00] story matters in any TV

[00:42:02] show and if the story is doing

[00:42:04] something that just is wrong

[00:42:06] for

[00:42:08] like society then we're going to talk about it right?

[00:42:10] And even amidst

[00:42:12] these critiques

[00:42:14] and these complaints

[00:42:16] the show endures

[00:42:18] the fact that we're able to

[00:42:20] create a podcast about it 20 years later

[00:42:22] and we see that there are fans who still

[00:42:24] watch it as they talk about it

[00:42:26] why?

[00:42:28] it does speak to its staying power

[00:42:30] so even with these critiques

[00:42:32] people are still watching the show

[00:42:34] so I mean yes you can probably

[00:42:36] say

[00:42:38] things to a podcast that decides to talk about it

[00:42:40] but we're talking about it

[00:42:42] I can't imagine doing a podcast where we just

[00:42:44] a door or something

[00:42:46] we say how wonderful it is

[00:42:48] right I can't imagine

[00:42:50] loving so much about

[00:42:52] the thumpa thumpa of this show

[00:42:54] and being

[00:42:56] just you know going on and on about it

[00:42:58] there's a couple of other Queersfolk podcasts

[00:43:00] that really are

[00:43:02] fan

[00:43:04] fan podcasts and

[00:43:06] I made a short list

[00:43:08] of some of my chief complaints about this show

[00:43:10] so let me rattle these off and then

[00:43:12] see what you think of them Matt

[00:43:14] I think that people kind of love the

[00:43:16] show because it's really all

[00:43:18] there was for a period of time

[00:43:20] there really wasn't any other

[00:43:22] scripted drama and it was just rare

[00:43:24] in the early 2000s

[00:43:26] and Queersfolk US wasn't the first

[00:43:28] gay TV show

[00:43:30] or as a lot of people

[00:43:32] just breathlessly say it's groundbreaking

[00:43:34] it did have

[00:43:36] production quality that rivaled

[00:43:38] everything else that was on cable back then

[00:43:40] except for the storytelling

[00:43:42] I mean these were like beautifully

[00:43:44] shot excellent score

[00:43:46] and so it was very watchable

[00:43:48] it took me 20 years to get to the point of where

[00:43:50] I

[00:43:52] gave it a more critical eye

[00:43:54] because I remember

[00:43:56] the first time I started watching it

[00:43:58] I had seen the UK show

[00:44:00] and I caught flu

[00:44:02] and I was in bed for like two days

[00:44:04] and a friend dropped off season one

[00:44:06] which was 23 episodes

[00:44:08] and I watched it all as I was

[00:44:10] in bed with the flu and I just could not

[00:44:12] stop watching it that was like my first

[00:44:14] binge on DVDs

[00:44:16] I mean

[00:44:18] it was important but when we look at it now

[00:44:20] as we are older

[00:44:22] gay men that have seen a lot

[00:44:24] and done a lot we often look at the

[00:44:26] show and kind of go

[00:44:28] yeah I mean

[00:44:30] when you're

[00:44:32] starving for representation

[00:44:34] you latch on to

[00:44:36] like anything so if this is the one thing

[00:44:38] that's there

[00:44:40] you're going to do what you can

[00:44:42] to lift it up because then

[00:44:44] maybe something else will come along

[00:44:46] when you then have an abundance

[00:44:48] of this kind of

[00:44:50] material

[00:44:52] you can then be like okay I'm glad this existed

[00:44:54] then to then lift up

[00:44:56] these other projects that

[00:44:58] became that took that mold

[00:45:00] and made it better or made it

[00:45:02] more timely or made something

[00:45:04] you know this is something like this was a big

[00:45:06] conversation I think people had when

[00:45:08] looking came on to HBO

[00:45:10] there was a lot of comparison because we're

[00:45:12] seeing gay men

[00:45:14] on TV

[00:45:16] right and many gay men

[00:45:18] on TV

[00:45:20] one of the chief complaints about looking

[00:45:22] people kept saying that it was boring and I'm like

[00:45:24] oh god

[00:45:26] these are and like that was something

[00:45:28] that always astonished me because I would see

[00:45:30] conversations looking

[00:45:32] was having between its characters

[00:45:34] and like I had this exact conversation

[00:45:36] two days ago with my friends I found

[00:45:38] so much

[00:45:40] of myself in that show

[00:45:42] and it was such an important time for me personally

[00:45:44] you know being someone who was newly

[00:45:46] out and I found

[00:45:48] material for me to latch on to that I'm sure

[00:45:50] people back in 2000 did with Queer's Folk

[00:45:52] plus looking had Jonathan Groff

[00:45:54] and Russell Tovey

[00:45:56] so there's that

[00:45:58] there was an overarching theme

[00:46:00] to the US show where Brian

[00:46:02] wanted Justin to

[00:46:04] be the best homosexual he can be

[00:46:06] and I always just

[00:46:08] found that super goofy

[00:46:10] it was almost like this metaphysical

[00:46:12] thing or something

[00:46:14] I just don't think it serviced the story that well

[00:46:16] it's like what do you mean you're grooming him

[00:46:18] what are you trying to turn this kid into

[00:46:20] you really don't want him to be himself

[00:46:22] what what huh

[00:46:24] yeah that again that beads into that

[00:46:26] that super ego that we talked about

[00:46:28] so much with Brian where you know

[00:46:30] because you know the first episode we see

[00:46:32] him trying to be Superman

[00:46:34] staying on top of the hospital thinking that nothing

[00:46:36] can destroy him nothing can bring him down

[00:46:38] you know what you know with Stuart's just

[00:46:40] more charming so that's why I bought into it

[00:46:42] and so it's

[00:46:44] yeah it's like let Justin go on

[00:46:46] his own path which is I think where the show eventually

[00:46:48] like got to is that he had

[00:46:50] to let Justin go and let him be

[00:46:52] his own person

[00:46:54] but that was after he had really

[00:46:56] basically turned Justin

[00:46:58] into a mini version of himself

[00:47:00] yes yeah

[00:47:02] like I would like to think if there was ever an extension

[00:47:04] of this series that we got to see

[00:47:06] Justin do his own thing

[00:47:08] I also think that copying the UK show

[00:47:10] line by line

[00:47:12] just didn't do the US show

[00:47:14] any favors maybe

[00:47:16] the US show needed to start photography

[00:47:18] really quickly so they had to work

[00:47:20] from existing stories and

[00:47:22] just do teleplays on them but

[00:47:24] those ended up being the best episodes

[00:47:26] of the entire US series

[00:47:28] after they had run their course

[00:47:30] and they ran out of material from

[00:47:32] Russell T Davies the rest of the US series

[00:47:34] felt totally different I just got to

[00:47:36] imagine that Russell Davies

[00:47:38] just can't stand the US version

[00:47:40] the

[00:47:42] writing was just off the wall

[00:47:44] and disjointed at the same time

[00:47:46] it was as if the characters

[00:47:48] never really settled into who they are

[00:47:50] and who they were going to become

[00:47:52] and just had this really

[00:47:54] slow period of problems

[00:47:56] over and over

[00:47:58] they just outright changed from episode to

[00:48:00] episode and some characters like Ben

[00:48:02] were completely neutered after those

[00:48:04] dynamite first few episodes with

[00:48:06] him his character was just

[00:48:08] a pale of what it could have been

[00:48:10] it was almost as if the US series

[00:48:12] was written by

[00:48:14] people that had never lived

[00:48:16] anything remotely close to these

[00:48:18] stories where you can tell in Russell

[00:48:20] Davies' stories that they're

[00:48:22] autobiographical Cohen and Lippman on

[00:48:24] the other hand just took way too long

[00:48:26] to establish their own stories

[00:48:28] like why bother taking UK centric

[00:48:30] characters and their UK centric

[00:48:32] stories and then trying to make them work

[00:48:34] as US characters in Pittsburgh

[00:48:36] I think the Ben example is such a great

[00:48:38] one to go with because I still think about

[00:48:40] that moment where they were going

[00:48:42] to have sex and

[00:48:44] Michael was saying like I want to

[00:48:46] but it was such a

[00:48:48] block for them both and it's

[00:48:50] still the way we would

[00:48:52] hear the sound over

[00:48:54] the credits they didn't play

[00:48:56] in music and they told us

[00:48:58] it was incredible great episode

[00:49:00] I loved that

[00:49:02] excellent episode but you're right then

[00:49:04] it's like okay now what do we do with it

[00:49:06] and they were just like well we give it a shot

[00:49:08] and then they just you know put it

[00:49:10] yeah he became an extra

[00:49:12] Michael really all of the things they could

[00:49:14] have explored especially when talking about

[00:49:16] what it means to be HIV positive

[00:49:18] but undetectable in this day

[00:49:20] and age and what it means

[00:49:22] to live with this chronic condition

[00:49:24] that's no longer a death sentence

[00:49:26] so much that could have happened

[00:49:28] and it really feels like it didn't

[00:49:30] I also thought that the guest stars

[00:49:32] that had short story arcs

[00:49:34] really kind of

[00:49:36] made the US show

[00:49:38] much more bearable in the UK show had

[00:49:40] virtually no guest stars none

[00:49:42] right because it was it was what

[00:49:44] 10 episodes 8 episodes the parts of the

[00:49:46] US show that resonated the most

[00:49:48] for me were the ones not starring the main cast

[00:49:50] like Dr. David Cameron

[00:49:52] Ethan Gold

[00:49:54] Ben Breckner's HIV story

[00:49:56] before he became regular

[00:49:58] that awful Sam Auerbach character

[00:50:00] Lita

[00:50:02] and George Schickel

[00:50:04] all those people were never mentioned

[00:50:06] once their time on the show ended

[00:50:08] we were so pissed the way Ethan Gold's

[00:50:10] storyline wrapped up the fact that it

[00:50:12] wrapped up period I mean can you imagine

[00:50:14] if he gets shown up in like season 4

[00:50:16] should have kept showing up

[00:50:18] just to be there yeah

[00:50:20] and then finally the UK series

[00:50:22] was a huge revolution ending that

[00:50:24] we can get our heads and hearts around

[00:50:26] the US series just kind of

[00:50:28] stumbled over the finish line in a way

[00:50:30] that left people kind of

[00:50:32] blue-balled the lesbians

[00:50:34] just pack up and leave Ted and Emmett never get together

[00:50:36] Justin leaves for New York to become

[00:50:38] the best homosexual he can be

[00:50:40] Brian has left in exactly the same

[00:50:42] state that we found him in when the series

[00:50:44] started it was just really weird

[00:50:46] that's something that I really really

[00:50:48] dislike not just not just in this show

[00:50:50] like in any show when if we go on

[00:50:52] this journey for so

[00:50:54] many years and we watch so many episodes

[00:50:56] and then you are going to leave

[00:50:58] your character I mean seemingly

[00:51:00] lead character Brian the same as he was

[00:51:02] why did I just do this

[00:51:04] this is one of my chief complaints

[00:51:06] with the show friends it goes on

[00:51:08] for 10 years and literally

[00:51:10] just comes back to exactly where it was

[00:51:12] the first fucking episode I mean there is

[00:51:14] something to say about stories going full circle

[00:51:16] but here it went

[00:51:18] like Brian was the only one that kind of went full circle

[00:51:21] kind of predictable I guess because

[00:51:23] he is never going to change right

[00:51:25] right exactly and what do I want

[00:51:27] I wanted to see Brian and Justin

[00:51:29] get together even as much as I hate those happy endings

[00:51:32] the happy ending of the UK version

[00:51:34] with Stuart and Vince as goofy

[00:51:36] as it was and bonkers

[00:51:38] of an ending it really worked for me

[00:51:40] it you know what it was bold

[00:51:42] groundbreaking tried something

[00:51:44] it tried something

[00:51:46] and you know it's like we are going to be

[00:51:49] outlandish with it

[00:51:51] and I went along with it and let's be honest

[00:51:53] it's depiction of

[00:51:55] US citizens at the very end is not

[00:51:57] far off

[00:51:59] alright that's all that we have for you

[00:52:01] at least for now you can check out all

[00:52:03] 96 episodes that cover both US and UK

[00:52:06] along with the season wrap up

[00:52:08] episodes at stillquaresfolk.com

[00:52:10] or wherever you get your podcasts from

[00:52:12] thank you so much for listening all this time

[00:52:14] you know especially those listeners that have been

[00:52:16] there with us since the beginning

[00:52:18] even when we took our long breaks

[00:52:20] and you know still came back

[00:52:22] and still engaged

[00:52:24] we really appreciate it and

[00:52:26] who knows where this will take us

[00:52:28] just ignore season one

[00:52:30] we kind of didn't know what we're doing

[00:52:32] no you know what

[00:52:34] see season two fall in love

[00:52:36] and then go back to season one

[00:52:38] and then just have a laugh

[00:52:40] there is a Quaresfolk reboot coming up soon

[00:52:42] and then the speciality Davey's attached to the project

[00:52:44] it takes place in the US though

[00:52:46] we haven't decided if we're going to cover it yet

[00:52:48] but you never know

[00:52:50] so keep in touch

[00:52:52] I'm intrigued one that

[00:52:54] it's going to take place in New Orleans

[00:52:56] and that their claim

[00:52:58] that it is going to be more diverse group of friends

[00:53:00] but it seems that at least according to

[00:53:02] the description it is all wrapped around a tragedy

[00:53:04] which I don't really know

[00:53:06] why we have to continue to have our queer characters come together

[00:53:08] because of a tragedy

[00:53:10] I'm sure it would be much more interesting if it was just

[00:53:12] close to the UK where it's like

[00:53:14] their life and I think that would be a lot of fun

[00:53:16] but who knows?

[00:53:18] so until we meet again, I'm Patrick Randall

[00:53:20] and I'm at Dominguez