We've reached the end! Every single episode of the original UK Queer as Folk and the US version of the show are in the bag.
Join us for one last circuit around the gaybourhood as we compare and contrast the two shows to find out which one is the best.
Patrick also challenges Matt to a Queer as Folk pub quiz with surprising results!
Check out Queer as Folk US and other great shows at slightlyunbalanced.com
[00:00:00] Must be nice, I'll live it on Canal Street
[00:00:05] From Slightly Unbalanced we are Still Queer as Folk UK and US for this one episode
[00:00:12] I'm Patrick Randall and I'm at Dominguez
[00:00:14] Today we're going to be talking about UK vs US which series we think was the better of the two
[00:00:22] We've done 96 episodes between the US and UK shows so far
[00:00:27] This is an episode that I've been looking forward to doing since 2017
[00:00:33] I think when we did our first really rough episode covering the US version
[00:00:39] This is the showdown our listeners have been looking for
[00:00:42] US vs UK
[00:00:45] And it's like, I still remember to this day when you came up with this idea
[00:00:50] Like wanting to do a podcast about their show
[00:00:52] We were at Big Bull downtown
[00:00:55] We had our second bottle of Chardonnay
[00:01:00] We were like, yeah let's just do it, let's see what happens
[00:01:02] In Chardonnay?
[00:01:04] Yeah, there was some sort of white wine that we had in a, you know, that we had in a
[00:01:08] Classy girls
[00:01:10] You know, like we do in Big Bull
[00:01:13] And now it's like, you know, four years later
[00:01:17] And we don't eat in restaurants anymore
[00:01:19] We don't do that, no restaurants
[00:01:21] Don't get us wrong, we still drink
[00:01:25] As we speak
[00:01:27] We should have done a count of how much boxed wine we've gone through doing this podcast
[00:01:31] Oh, that would have been a good stat
[00:01:33] Yeah, that would have been really great to know
[00:01:36] Because trust me, if you go listen to those earlier episodes where we were bold enough
[00:01:41] To record, you know, two episodes
[00:01:46] You can tell when we've clearly gotten to like the tipping point of the boxed wine
[00:01:52] Yeah, I think that would be the even numbered episodes, right?
[00:01:56] Yes
[00:01:57] Because we're doing two at a time
[00:01:59] Yeah, we're like, oh we can do this, we can knock out two episodes whenever we record
[00:02:03] Woo
[00:02:04] We stay and then we kind of like meander
[00:02:07] And crack up
[00:02:08] And don't make a whole lot of sense in some parts
[00:02:12] Yeah, I like to tell people that if you really are into, like us
[00:02:16] Skip season one
[00:02:18] We're clearly a trainwreck in season one of the US version
[00:02:22] We get better though
[00:02:23] I look at the stats for downloads of the different episodes
[00:02:26] In season one, episode one being the first always gets just a ton of downloads
[00:02:32] And the next episode, not so many after that
[00:02:36] I think people listen to it and go, oh
[00:02:39] Well, hopefully not
[00:02:40] I think some of our reviews have been favorable to those who held out and gave us that chance
[00:02:47] But yeah, we
[00:02:49] Yeah
[00:02:50] I think we grew
[00:02:51] I think we grew
[00:02:52] So for this episode, I thought we would do a few games
[00:02:55] First up is what I'm calling this or that quick fire
[00:02:58] Where Matt and I will have to make a snap call on the UK versus the US show
[00:03:03] And different elements from them
[00:03:05] Then we're gonna play who would you do where we decide which character we're more interested in fucking
[00:03:12] I'm so excited for that one
[00:03:14] Next up after that is Stuart versus Brian
[00:03:17] Where Matt has to guess who set a certain quote
[00:03:20] And then finally we'll do our usual version of a pub quiz where I ask Matt
[00:03:25] 15 questions about Queersfolk UK and see what he comes up with
[00:03:29] And if he was paying attention to the 10 hours of microphone time that he gave us this season
[00:03:36] At the time, I was paying attention
[00:03:39] And then you throw these questions at me
[00:03:41] I haven't watched season one, episode one in four years
[00:03:49] But I'm sure I'm gonna get something right
[00:03:51] Well, these are all UK questions
[00:03:53] So I think you got a good sporting chance on these
[00:03:55] Sure
[00:03:56] Okay, so I've got 15 this or that
[00:03:58] UK versus US
[00:03:59] When I read them off, you must immediately answer which one you thought was overall better
[00:04:04] All right
[00:04:05] When we get to the end, we'll compare our scores and see who was the statistical winner
[00:04:10] Okay
[00:04:11] So let me give you a sample first just to make sure you understand the game
[00:04:13] All right
[00:04:14] I'll say the UK bit first and then the US one
[00:04:16] So I'll say something like Jeep or Corvette
[00:04:19] And then you give your answer
[00:04:20] No comments, just your answer
[00:04:22] Quickfire style
[00:04:23] Ready?
[00:04:24] Got it
[00:04:25] Let's do it
[00:04:31] Okay
[00:04:32] Stuart Allen Jones or Brian Kinney
[00:04:33] Stuart
[00:04:34] Vince Tyler or Michael Novotny-Bruckner
[00:04:36] Vince
[00:04:37] Nathan Maloney or Justin Taylor
[00:04:38] Justin
[00:04:39] Phillip Delaney or Ted Schmidt
[00:04:40] Ted
[00:04:41] Alexander Perry or Emmett Honeycutt
[00:04:43] Emmett
[00:04:44] Janice Maloney or Jennifer Taylor
[00:04:46] Jennifer
[00:04:47] Hazel Tyler or Debbie Novotny
[00:04:49] Hazel
[00:04:50] Donna or Daphne
[00:04:51] Donna
[00:04:52] Lisa and Romy or Melanie and Lindsay
[00:04:54] Lisa and Romy
[00:04:55] Canal Street or Fak Pitsburg-Gaber hood
[00:04:58] Canal Street
[00:05:00] Daz Collinson or Ethan Gold
[00:05:02] Ethan Gold
[00:05:04] Cameron Roberts or Dr. David Cameron
[00:05:06] DDC, Dr. David Cameron
[00:05:08] Nobody or Ben Buckner
[00:05:11] Ben
[00:05:12] Bernard or Uncle Vic
[00:05:14] Uncle Vic
[00:05:15] Christian Hobbs or Chris Hobbs
[00:05:17] Yes
[00:05:21] The UK sucks or the US sucks
[00:05:23] UK
[00:05:25] Okay
[00:05:26] So for me
[00:05:27] I had picked
[00:05:28] Stuart Allen Jones
[00:05:29] Vince Tyler
[00:05:30] Nathan Maloney
[00:05:31] Ted Schmidt
[00:05:32] Emmett Honeycutt
[00:05:33] Jennifer Taylor
[00:05:34] Hazel Tyler
[00:05:35] Lisa and Romy
[00:05:36] Canal Street
[00:05:37] Ethan Gold
[00:05:38] Dr. David Cameron
[00:05:39] Nobody
[00:05:40] Uncle Vic
[00:05:41] Christian Hobbs
[00:05:42] and UK sucks
[00:05:44] So that gave me
[00:05:46] UK 10
[00:05:48] US 5
[00:05:50] And you had Christian Hobbs and Chris Hobbs
[00:05:53] Oh yeah
[00:05:54] So do I give one for each?
[00:05:55] Yeah let's go ahead and do that
[00:05:56] Okay
[00:05:57] UK 7
[00:05:58] US 9
[00:06:00] You like the US series better
[00:06:02] Ouch
[00:06:03] I don't think I like the series better
[00:06:05] I liked individual parts better
[00:06:07] But I knew it was going to be close
[00:06:09] I knew it was going to be close
[00:06:11] So
[00:06:12] I had Stuart Allen Jones as a winner because
[00:06:15] I found his character just to be more believable
[00:06:18] He wasn't portrayed as a magical
[00:06:21] Uber gay
[00:06:22] And he really didn't do anything that would
[00:06:25] make me think he is a deplorable person
[00:06:28] Except for that weird firebombing thing
[00:06:31] Alexander's mother's car
[00:06:32] Why did you pick Stuart?
[00:06:33] For a lot of the reasons that you picked Stuart
[00:06:35] I loved the fact that he was much more
[00:06:38] A character that was on somewhat of a level playing field
[00:06:41] So then I believed in a lot of the friendships
[00:06:43] I believed the friendships a lot more
[00:06:45] There wasn't just putting him on a pedestal
[00:06:47] In a lot of ways
[00:06:49] You know it was fun to watch him
[00:06:51] Turn on the charm
[00:06:52] That I thought was a lot more believable
[00:06:54] Like then I understood why people would fall in love with him
[00:06:57] Or would want to sleep with him
[00:06:59] He could in fact
[00:07:01] Charmed the pants off people
[00:07:03] Whereas I thought Brian was such a turn off
[00:07:05] And such an egomaniac
[00:07:07] Like why would anyone want to be like
[00:07:09] Oh yeah then please do me
[00:07:11] Like no thank you
[00:07:12] Please do me
[00:07:14] We'd both picked Vince Tyler
[00:07:16] So I thought that Vince absolutely trounces
[00:07:19] Michael Nabotny
[00:07:20] If you look at the whole US series
[00:07:23] Michael comes off a bit schizophrenic
[00:07:26] Or I guess at best
[00:07:28] Multiple personalities
[00:07:30] He was just written so poorly that he became unbelievable
[00:07:33] As the baby Uber gay
[00:07:35] Vince just endeared himself to us
[00:07:37] Right from the start
[00:07:39] We were really rooting for him every step of the way
[00:07:42] And he just never put a bad foot forward
[00:07:44] Yeah I mean I mentioned that
[00:07:46] I think in the first episode of the UK
[00:07:49] Version that I just I found him so endearing
[00:07:52] And his like nerdyness
[00:07:54] Was such a turn on
[00:07:56] I just thought he was adorable
[00:07:58] Michael had this way of just running so hot and cold
[00:08:02] And running to extremes in his reactions to things
[00:08:05] And we kept critiquing it
[00:08:09] That he would always as his go to
[00:08:12] Be like well I'm gonna shit on Justin
[00:08:15] Why you were his best friend
[00:08:17] And comic partner not two seconds ago
[00:08:20] But apparently everything's still his fault
[00:08:22] Like get the fuck over yourself
[00:08:24] And again I just
[00:08:26] God Vince and that adorable accent
[00:08:29] So we were split on the next one
[00:08:32] I picked Nathan Maloney and you picked Justin Taylor
[00:08:35] And I just have to go with Nathan
[00:08:37] Because he seemed to get his shit together
[00:08:39] Faster than poor little Justin did
[00:08:42] After a while it just seemed like the US writers
[00:08:44] Were yo-yoing Justin all over the place
[00:08:47] And not really giving him a clear coherent narrative
[00:08:50] One moment he was wise the next minute
[00:08:53] He was whiny little boy
[00:08:55] I just thought that his growth as a character
[00:08:58] Was really really obtuse throughout the entire US series
[00:09:02] So Nathan Maloney for the win
[00:09:04] Justin I think it's funny that you think that
[00:09:08] Nathan got his shit together faster than Justin did
[00:09:11] Because I think Justin had a-
[00:09:14] I thought he popped more when it came to
[00:09:16] Finding his independence and finding his voice
[00:09:19] Than I think Nathan did
[00:09:21] Especially when he had people who were so supportive of him
[00:09:24] Like the way he treated his mother just pissed me off to no end
[00:09:27] Good point
[00:09:29] And the way he treated Donna
[00:09:31] The way he wanted to live this gay life
[00:09:35] I never- I always thought he was like
[00:09:37] Obviously trying to sell that he was bought into
[00:09:40] The whole gay fantasia a lot
[00:09:43] He's like that he was living that
[00:09:45] And it's like no you're putting on a show
[00:09:48] And we're all kind of seeing through it
[00:09:49] So why are you lying about it?
[00:09:50] Like these are your best friends
[00:09:52] It's okay
[00:09:54] And so I just- I found him kind of
[00:09:56] A little too grating for me
[00:09:58] Phil versus Ted was an easy one
[00:09:59] We both agreed on this one
[00:10:00] I think this was mostly because
[00:10:02] Phil was just killed off so quickly
[00:10:04] We didn't really know him
[00:10:06] My only complaint with Ted is that
[00:10:09] The US writers just couldn't get enough of wrecking his life
[00:10:13] Over and over and over
[00:10:15] That's another reason why I wanted to pick him
[00:10:17] Because he was such a punching bag for the series
[00:10:19] That I was like no I'm going to give you a win
[00:10:21] But wouldn't it have been nice to see Ted
[00:10:23] Just come out of the series more fully bagged as a person
[00:10:26] And not having gone through so much
[00:10:29] There's always- I think you find it in every series
[00:10:32] There's always going to be that character
[00:10:33] That they're going to put the brunt of bad things
[00:10:37] On one of them
[00:10:38] Like they're going to be that show's victim
[00:10:42] Well the next one was also we were in agreement on
[00:10:45] Emmett versus Alexander
[00:10:47] So Emmett Honeycutt clearly trounces him
[00:10:50] Alexander really didn't even need to be in this show at all
[00:10:53] You'll remember how many times I asked the question of why
[00:10:57] Alexander was in just about any scene he happened to be in
[00:11:00] With the exception of that first episode
[00:11:03] Where he gets off the plane
[00:11:05] And he was with the threesome with the undertaker
[00:11:08] That should have been it
[00:11:09] He should have gone
[00:11:10] Yeah should have just been like a guest star situation
[00:11:13] If anything I will give credit to the US series for finding
[00:11:16] A purpose for Emmett
[00:11:18] And I think that was a character that is probably the strongest
[00:11:21] One of the strongest characters that came out of the US version
[00:11:25] And a way to really give him his own voice
[00:11:28] You know from the UK counterpart
[00:11:31] Our next one was Janice Maloney or Jennifer Taylor
[00:11:34] And Jennifer Taylor had to have the win here
[00:11:37] Because she just stole every scene she was in
[00:11:39] Whereas Janice Maloney was really kind of
[00:11:42] Just an angst ridden mother
[00:11:44] Coping to deal with her newly out gay son
[00:11:47] But Jennifer Taylor became like ally
[00:11:50] Throughout the series
[00:11:53] So I liked that ride that she gave us
[00:11:55] And she wore like such great pantsuits
[00:11:57] She looked great
[00:11:58] I love how they dressed her
[00:12:00] They also allowed her to become her own independent person
[00:12:03] She also started you know
[00:12:05] Get that young dick
[00:12:07] Oh my god
[00:12:09] Let's talk about that
[00:12:11] Woo
[00:12:13] Like good for her
[00:12:15] She got herself a job
[00:12:17] She dumped that asshole
[00:12:19] Yes props Jennifer
[00:12:21] Next one was Hazel Tyler and Debbie Navotny
[00:12:23] And we both picked Hazel
[00:12:25] I liked Hazel much better than Debbie
[00:12:27] Because Debbie always came off as
[00:12:29] This benevolently bitchy know it all character
[00:12:32] And I didn't like that
[00:12:34] I might have some killer scenes
[00:12:36] But I think Hazel is a better mom
[00:12:38] Yeah and I think that really came down to
[00:12:40] The way Hazel was cast
[00:12:42] Being much closer to Vincent age
[00:12:45] At least in my interpretation of it
[00:12:47] She's much closer to him in age
[00:12:49] So I understood what their mother son
[00:12:51] Dynamic was
[00:12:53] And she had a way of
[00:12:55] Being involved in his life
[00:12:57] And involved in the things he did
[00:12:59] Without it feeling too intrusive
[00:13:01] And not too over the top
[00:13:03] We both agreed on the next one too
[00:13:05] Which was Donna vs Daphne
[00:13:07] Even though both of them have minor parts
[00:13:09] Donna just never hesitated to tell off Nathan
[00:13:11] Like
[00:13:13] When she put him in his place with that line
[00:13:15] I'm black and I'm a girl
[00:13:17] Try that for a week
[00:13:19] She also dropped everything to go to London
[00:13:21] With Nathan
[00:13:23] And she's also never heard from again
[00:13:25] If you remember she
[00:13:27] Daphne was really just there for Justin
[00:13:29] To have a conversation with
[00:13:31] To tell us more about Justin
[00:13:33] So the Daphne character
[00:13:35] Herself really didn't go anywhere
[00:13:37] In this series and that was kind of disappointing
[00:13:39] Because we liked her
[00:13:41] She had some good scenes
[00:13:43] But at the end of the day
[00:13:45] Donna was the much more impactful character
[00:13:47] I think
[00:13:49] Cosine, all of that
[00:13:51] Okay let's move on to the lesbians then
[00:13:53] They were there, I don't have much else
[00:13:55] Well the UK lesbians won for me
[00:13:57] But on a technicality though
[00:13:59] There just simply wasn't enough airtime
[00:14:01] For them to have serious problems
[00:14:03] Whereas the US lesbians
[00:14:05] Had tons of contrived drama
[00:14:07] Some of it good but much of it was kind of head scratching
[00:14:09] Like why are you doing this
[00:14:11] To these people
[00:14:13] And is this real?
[00:14:15] That type of thing so
[00:14:17] Yeah they were minor characters
[00:14:19] I thought that was always an issue
[00:14:21] That I had with the US version
[00:14:23] Was that okay so we have these lesbian characters
[00:14:25] But we don't treat them
[00:14:27] Basically as we do our gay characters
[00:14:29] And
[00:14:31] They also were given the most graphic
[00:14:33] Sex scenes when the show
[00:14:35] Really wanted to be a focus on the gay men
[00:14:37] I saw a lot more
[00:14:39] Female nudity and gratuitous
[00:14:41] Female nudity than I thought was
[00:14:43] Really necessary
[00:14:45] Canal Street vs
[00:14:47] Fake Pittsburgh gayhood
[00:14:49] And I had Canal Street for the win so did you
[00:14:51] Mostly
[00:14:53] For me this is because it's a real
[00:14:55] And many of the bars and clubs
[00:14:57] In the show are actually real
[00:14:59] The US show never really had a
[00:15:01] Pittsburgh identity
[00:15:03] Because it was all made up I don't know
[00:15:05] It was just kind of this fantasy land
[00:15:07] And it just didn't come off as
[00:15:09] Something we could go visit on holiday
[00:15:11] Yeah and I think after
[00:15:13] Thankfully getting to travel
[00:15:15] To England
[00:15:17] Before all this
[00:15:19] Made me really appreciate the UK setting
[00:15:21] So much more
[00:15:23] And
[00:15:25] It really made me miss London
[00:15:27] Really miss London so
[00:15:29] Shout out to Canal Street
[00:15:31] I also never reigned in Manchester
[00:15:33] Which I really liked
[00:15:35] No Reigns though
[00:15:37] Ethan Gold or Daz Collinson
[00:15:39] And Ethan Gold got the win for me
[00:15:41] The story of Justin and Ethan
[00:15:43] I think was one of the better arcs
[00:15:45] In the US scene
[00:15:47] Ethan just had a lot going for him
[00:15:49] Daz was just a twat
[00:15:51] As Nathan told his mother
[00:15:57] Yes, exactly. Ethan Gold
[00:15:59] Was accomplished musician
[00:16:01] He was incredibly charming
[00:16:03] He was incredibly sexy
[00:16:05] Daz was just sort of there
[00:16:07] Daz just hit this annoying point
[00:16:09] When we first met him we were like
[00:16:11] Okay that's cool
[00:16:13] And then after a while it's like
[00:16:15] Oh shut up you're such a twat
[00:16:17] Why are you here
[00:16:19] The next one we agreed on
[00:16:21] And this one if listeners
[00:16:23] If you've ever listened to our US series
[00:16:25] You'll remember that I had a love hate relationship
[00:16:27] With Dr. David Cameron
[00:16:29] But he gets the win here
[00:16:31] Because even though he was
[00:16:33] Something of a thorn
[00:16:35] In Michael's side
[00:16:37] He was more likable in my mind
[00:16:39] And he was
[00:16:41] Better to his youthful boyfriend
[00:16:43] Than Cameron Roberts was
[00:16:45] To Vince
[00:16:47] And he was more into
[00:16:49] Michael than Cameron was
[00:16:51] Into Vince
[00:16:53] It was almost as if Cameron saw
[00:16:55] Vince as a project
[00:16:57] I'm going to find all the ways
[00:16:59] I'm going to better you
[00:17:01] Whereas I think Dr. David Cameron
[00:17:03] Had a very genuine love
[00:17:05] For Michael
[00:17:07] It was more like he treated him
[00:17:09] Than wanted to improve his life
[00:17:11] To get to his level
[00:17:13] Next one we disagreed on
[00:17:15] This was nobody or Ben Bruckner
[00:17:17] Ben Bruckner started out
[00:17:19] The US show as just an outstanding character
[00:17:21] And then he was almost
[00:17:23] Immediately marginalized into
[00:17:25] Like Michael's hype man
[00:17:27] He should have been killed off
[00:17:29] In those first couple of episodes
[00:17:31] Because you remember early on
[00:17:33] When Michael was trying to cope
[00:17:35] With dating an HIV positive man
[00:17:37] Those were some of the best
[00:17:39] Storylines of that particular season
[00:17:41] But then they didn't really do
[00:17:43] Anything else with Ben Bruckner
[00:17:45] And that's why I just had to go
[00:17:47] With nobody
[00:17:49] The show would have been better without him
[00:17:51] Or if he was killed off
[00:17:53] You say that but then I don't think we would have had
[00:17:55] A strong connection
[00:17:57] When Hunter enters the picture
[00:17:59] And I think that gives Ben such a greater purpose
[00:18:01] Because then he is able to be
[00:18:03] Not only that father to him
[00:18:05] But also that figure that
[00:18:07] Allows Hunter to see that you can live
[00:18:09] With HIV and live fine
[00:18:11] Live a normal life
[00:18:13] You can live a life that is
[00:18:15] Not just
[00:18:17] That is already determined because you have a chronic illness
[00:18:19] So I really appreciate that
[00:18:21] I really appreciate his chest, his arms
[00:18:25] So yeah, I will choose Ben
[00:18:27] Well that's a good segue into the next one
[00:18:29] Which was Bernard versus Vic
[00:18:31] And for me Uncle Vic wins
[00:18:33] By a game aisle
[00:18:35] Because Bernard was like one of those muppets
[00:18:37] In the balcony
[00:18:39] Uncle Vic was one of the standout
[00:18:41] U.S. characters partially due to
[00:18:43] Jack Weatherall's portrayal of the character
[00:18:45] But you remember they killed
[00:18:47] Off Uncle Vic to bring us Hunter
[00:18:49] Uncle Vic left us way too soon
[00:18:51] Absolutely, I thought he was always funny
[00:18:55] I never found his advice to Michael
[00:18:57] Contrived
[00:18:59] I always thought it was always poignant
[00:19:01] And that's also just the testament
[00:19:03] To Jack Weatherall finding the
[00:19:05] Heart and humanity in anything they gave
[00:19:07] Uncle Vic
[00:19:09] We split on the next one
[00:19:11] Christian Hobbs versus Chris Hobbs
[00:19:13] I had to go with UK Christian Hobbs over U.S. Chris Hobbs
[00:19:15] I actually believed
[00:19:17] That Christian Hobbs was gay
[00:19:19] And secretly into Nathan
[00:19:21] And I think that's a better story than Justin
[00:19:23] Just jacking off a clearly
[00:19:25] Straight character in the U.S. series
[00:19:27] So yes to that
[00:19:29] But also I thought
[00:19:31] The hand job scene of the U.S. version
[00:19:33] Was hotter
[00:19:35] Oh I thought you said that you like the UK version better
[00:19:37] I'm gonna have to check the tape
[00:19:39] No, let's check that
[00:19:41] Because this is why
[00:19:43] I had to say yes to both
[00:19:45] Because I think they're both hot
[00:19:47] But there's something about
[00:19:49] Jacking off a straight guy
[00:19:51] But then there's just something to Chris
[00:19:53] The way he gives into the pleasure
[00:19:55] And
[00:19:57] Give me a moment
[00:19:59] I'm thinking about the scenes again
[00:20:01] To add that one to rotation
[00:20:05] The last category of our
[00:20:07] Quickfire was UK sex
[00:20:09] Versus U.S. sex
[00:20:11] And I thought the UK sex
[00:20:13] Was better because it was
[00:20:15] Well moderated and well
[00:20:17] Time. We used to joke about
[00:20:19] The U.S. shows always having to have at least
[00:20:21] One sexual interlude
[00:20:23] Set to music
[00:20:25] In the UK sex was implicit
[00:20:27] For all the characters in the U.S.
[00:20:29] It was explicit
[00:20:31] And that's why I really saw the UK
[00:20:33] Sex to be a lot more interesting
[00:20:35] The best example of why
[00:20:37] UK sex worked so much more for me
[00:20:39] Was that moment when
[00:20:41] Nathan and Stuart
[00:20:43] Go up to
[00:20:45] Vince's room and they get each other
[00:20:47] Off in the most animalistic
[00:20:49] Way and it was just
[00:20:51] That was hot
[00:20:53] Nothing, nothing
[00:20:55] Maybe that was explicit
[00:20:57] Nothing in the
[00:20:59] U.S.
[00:21:01] Fire editing
[00:21:03] Hyped up
[00:21:05] Video editing kind of situation
[00:21:07] That they had
[00:21:09] Ever really matched what the UK version did
[00:21:11] With that.
[00:21:14] This is so curious, folks. Stick around.
[00:21:16] We've got more to come.
[00:21:44] Our next segment is called
[00:21:46] Who Would You Do?
[00:21:48] Or basically Who Would You Rather Fuck?
[00:21:50] Since we're both
[00:21:52] Verse, what kind of
[00:21:54] We can take this as
[00:21:56] Robotomy and remember, this is just
[00:21:58] Fucking so basically
[00:22:00] A slutty beauty pageant
[00:22:02] Unlike what we just talked about with each character
[00:22:04] So I'll do the quick fire again.
[00:22:06] Ready? Yep.
[00:22:08] Stuart Allen Jones or Brian Kinney?
[00:22:10] Vince Tyler or Michael Navotny-Bruckner?
[00:22:12] Vince. Nathan Maloney or
[00:22:14] Justin Taylor?
[00:22:16] Justin. Phillip Delaney or Ted Schmitt?
[00:22:18] Philip. Alexander Perry or Emmett
[00:22:20] Honeycutt? Emmett. Daz Collinson or
[00:22:22] Ethan Gold? Ethan. Cameron Roberts
[00:22:24] Dr. David Cameron.
[00:22:26] Nobody or Ben Bruckner?
[00:22:28] Ben Bruckner. Christian Hobbs or
[00:22:30] Chris Hobbs? You can't pick both.
[00:22:32] Yes.
[00:22:34] You son of a bitch. You knew what I was going to do.
[00:22:38] Okay, I'll be honest. I'll say Christian.
[00:22:40] Okay, you had
[00:22:42] 5 US and
[00:22:44] 4 UK. Oh well, yeah.
[00:22:46] I had Brian Kinney over
[00:22:48] Stuart, Vince
[00:22:50] over Michael, Nathan over Justin
[00:22:52] Ted over Phillip, Emmett
[00:22:54] over Alexander, Ethan
[00:22:56] over Daz, Dr. David Cameron
[00:22:58] over Cameron Roberts, nobody
[00:23:00] over Ben Bruckner
[00:23:02] and Christian Hobbs versus Chris
[00:23:04] Hobbs so I had
[00:23:06] US beating UK 5-4
[00:23:08] and so did you.
[00:23:10] Let's take these one by one. The first one
[00:23:12] was a tough one because I find Stuart
[00:23:14] overall more attractive but I think Brian
[00:23:16] is kind of the sexier
[00:23:18] of the two. There's just something
[00:23:20] about him that I found to have a little
[00:23:22] more magnetism.
[00:23:24] I have the opposite feeling.
[00:23:26] Oh. I think
[00:23:28] Stuart is as much
[00:23:30] into getting pleasure
[00:23:32] and giving pleasure where I
[00:23:34] think Brian was much more into just
[00:23:36] getting pleasure. I had
[00:23:38] no debate on Vince versus
[00:23:40] Michael. I used to daydream about
[00:23:42] Vince and Michael just always seemed
[00:23:44] a little too straight for me.
[00:23:46] Oh, I've said
[00:23:48] I'm in love with Vince today. I'm in love
[00:23:50] with him. Everything about him is perfect. Are you going to write
[00:23:52] fan mail to Craig Kelly?
[00:23:54] Maybe. Yeah, I'll try
[00:23:56] and find my two
[00:23:58] cassette VHS of Titanic
[00:24:00] and
[00:24:02] said to like, I remember
[00:24:04] your scene.
[00:24:06] I went to find that scene because I did
[00:24:08] a drop into the last episode
[00:24:10] when we talked about him. I don't think you listen to these
[00:24:12] episodes do you?
[00:24:14] You don't?
[00:24:16] You don't listen to your work.
[00:24:18] I trust my listeners too.
[00:24:20] But I found that one of his scenes
[00:24:22] got cut and there was
[00:24:24] apparently another one where
[00:24:26] it was just the two of them in the radio room, but that's
[00:24:28] not in the print that I had of the
[00:24:30] movie. It was just him walking up
[00:24:32] to the captain saying, there's ice
[00:24:34] ahead. Excuse me, sir.
[00:24:36] Another ice wall. This one's from the
[00:24:38] northern. Thank you, smart.
[00:24:40] When that's it, I
[00:24:42] wonder if
[00:24:44] since then something, some things have been
[00:24:46] trimmed a little bit.
[00:24:48] Yeah, it was in the script,
[00:24:50] but I didn't have a shooting script.
[00:24:52] I just found a script.
[00:24:54] His second scene was not in
[00:24:56] the actual picture.
[00:24:58] Okay, so next one. Nathan Maloney or Justin
[00:25:00] Taylor? I had Nathan Maloney.
[00:25:02] You had Justin Taylor.
[00:25:04] I picked Nathan because first of all
[00:25:06] he's taller.
[00:25:08] Those abs on him are just
[00:25:10] killer and those frames of
[00:25:12] film in the first few episodes
[00:25:14] of his butt
[00:25:16] and the twinkle in his eye.
[00:25:18] It just far outpaces that
[00:25:20] kind of short, rolly-poly Justin
[00:25:22] Taylor look.
[00:25:24] Remember when he was a go-go dancer and we were kind of like,
[00:25:26] ooh.
[00:25:28] So Nathan for the win. It's the 15
[00:25:30] year old thing that kills it for me.
[00:25:32] He turned 16 in the show.
[00:25:34] That's a very good
[00:25:38] point though.
[00:25:40] Did I just identify as a creepy old man?
[00:25:42] Little bit.
[00:25:44] Anything else you'd like to share about?
[00:25:46] 17 year old Justin Taylor?
[00:25:50] No.
[00:25:52] Maybe I'll have to edit this segment.
[00:25:54] I'd like to think that maybe he would draw me
[00:25:56] at one point.
[00:25:58] The next one.
[00:26:00] You picked Philip Delaney over Ted Schmitt.
[00:26:02] I had Ted Schmitt because
[00:26:04] we never really got a good look
[00:26:06] at film, but I remember commenting
[00:26:08] a few times on how hot Ted
[00:26:10] was at certain points in the
[00:26:12] U.S. show.
[00:26:14] He went on such a wild arc that
[00:26:16] he was kind of all over the board,
[00:26:18] but there were several scenes where
[00:26:20] Ted's body was just
[00:26:22] banging and I was like,
[00:26:24] oh, Ted, come hither.
[00:26:26] Was that when
[00:26:28] he was in his crystal phase or?
[00:26:30] I think it was after
[00:26:32] the crystal phase and after
[00:26:34] he had his fake plastic surgery.
[00:26:36] Oh, I see.
[00:26:38] There was one scene when he's walking through the park
[00:26:40] with Emmett and we both went, whoa,
[00:26:42] what's going on there?
[00:26:44] Because all of a sudden he just looked amazing.
[00:26:46] It's true.
[00:26:48] No, Philip,
[00:26:50] I feel like he would care more
[00:26:52] and probably not wear awful boxers.
[00:26:54] Oh, good point.
[00:26:56] Very good point.
[00:26:58] Next one was Alexander versus Emmett.
[00:27:00] I kind of feel the same way about Emmett
[00:27:02] as I did Ted.
[00:27:04] Those scenes when Emmett was a porn star
[00:27:06] and we both went to the park.
[00:27:08] We never got a really good look at Alexander though.
[00:27:10] You're right, exactly.
[00:27:12] My assumption is that Emmett
[00:27:14] can give as well as he can take.
[00:27:16] Well,
[00:27:18] at least
[00:27:20] and we all know that he can certainly take it
[00:27:22] after we watched him have sex with Drew.
[00:27:24] Oh yeah, Drew Boyd, the professional footballer.
[00:27:28] The next one
[00:27:30] we obviously agreed on,
[00:27:32] that was Ethan Gold over Dows Collinson.
[00:27:34] Ethan didn't have that soul patch on his chin.
[00:27:36] I probably would have sent him fan mail.
[00:27:38] I found him that hot.
[00:27:40] Oh yeah, it's like you just need to cover it
[00:27:42] with your hand and then do everything else.
[00:27:46] As soon as he starts playing that violin,
[00:27:48] it's like take me.
[00:27:50] I remember he was playing the violin when
[00:27:52] he woke up Justin to play the violin.
[00:27:54] We were like, what?
[00:27:56] Like, oh my god,
[00:27:58] could you be any hotter?
[00:28:00] So the Camerons, Dr. David Cameron wins for me.
[00:28:02] This was close though.
[00:28:04] It could have gone either way.
[00:28:06] I wouldn't walk away from either of the Camerons.
[00:28:08] I loved
[00:28:10] the mid-century modern home that he would give me.
[00:28:12] Architecture is perfect mid-century modern home.
[00:28:14] Exactly.
[00:28:16] And I know that
[00:28:18] he had that little indiscretion
[00:28:20] in the bath house when Brian saw him.
[00:28:22] Oh right.
[00:28:24] Then it would just be like, no, Dr. Cameron,
[00:28:26] if that's what you want to do, let's go.
[00:28:28] The next one,
[00:28:30] nobody or Ben Breckner
[00:28:32] and Ben Breckner never really
[00:28:34] did anything for me.
[00:28:36] I'm just not into that Jim Bunny
[00:28:38] hulked out,
[00:28:40] steroid look that he was
[00:28:42] vibing. Contradict me.
[00:28:44] I'll take it. I'll take it all
[00:28:46] night long.
[00:28:48] The final one we both picked Christian Hobbes
[00:28:50] after much debate by you.
[00:28:52] I thought those scenes where he's
[00:28:54] awkwardly hitting on Nathan
[00:28:56] or what did it for me.
[00:28:58] One time in the pub where he looks across
[00:29:00] and he gives him that smile
[00:29:02] or that time in the hallway at school
[00:29:04] where he's kind of acting hurt
[00:29:06] that Nathan wasn't paying attention to him.
[00:29:08] I just thought that Chris Hobbes
[00:29:10] in the US series was just a random
[00:29:12] annoying jock. Didn't like him at all.
[00:29:14] Much less of a
[00:29:16] chance that Christian Hobbes
[00:29:18] would hate crime me.
[00:29:20] So that's how I picked.
[00:29:22] Fair enough.
[00:29:24] We're going to do one thing where
[00:29:26] I didn't give you that in the show
[00:29:28] outline, but we're going to do
[00:29:30] two very quick fuck Mary kills.
[00:29:32] So I'm going to name three people and you have to say
[00:29:34] which one you would fuck, which one you would marry
[00:29:36] and which one you would kill. Okay.
[00:29:38] Stuart Vence Nathan.
[00:29:40] Stuart Vence Nathan.
[00:29:42] Fuck Stuart Mary
[00:29:44] Vence Kill Nathan. Okay.
[00:29:46] Brian Michael Justin.
[00:29:48] Fuck
[00:29:50] Brian Mary Justin Kill Michael.
[00:29:52] Okay. So for me, it would have been
[00:29:54] fuck Nathan Mary Vence
[00:29:56] Kill Stuart.
[00:29:58] Oh, okay.
[00:30:00] For the US, for me, it would have been
[00:30:02] fuck Brian Mary Justin
[00:30:04] kill Michael.
[00:30:06] Yep. We agree there.
[00:30:08] Like that one was hard.
[00:30:10] We'll be back with more still course.
[00:30:15] As is our custom
[00:30:50] at the end of each series, I challenge
[00:30:52] Matt to a pub quiz about things that
[00:30:54] happened in the series.
[00:30:56] I've got 15 questions ready to go
[00:30:58] and I don't have to answer these
[00:31:00] because I wrote them.
[00:31:04] I should have flipped the script and said
[00:31:06] Patrick, I had 15 questions.
[00:31:08] You got it. You should have
[00:31:10] you threatened to do that in season
[00:31:12] four or five of us.
[00:31:14] You never did that. No.
[00:31:16] Okay. So you got to answer these as quick as possible.
[00:31:18] No dwelling.
[00:31:20] If you'd like, you can say pass
[00:31:22] and we'll come back to the question
[00:31:24] at the end.
[00:31:26] Okay. Okay. All right. Ready?
[00:31:28] No, but here we go.
[00:31:30] You'll do fine. How old is Nathan Maloney
[00:31:32] when the show starts? 15.
[00:31:34] It's 15 aren't you, Nate? What birthday
[00:31:36] did Vince celebrate where Cameron bought him
[00:31:38] a car? 30.
[00:31:40] What kind of car did Cameron give
[00:31:42] Vince for his birthday? Oh, it was
[00:31:44] kind of a junker.
[00:31:46] I can't remember the exact model though.
[00:31:48] It's just a mini. How old is Stuart?
[00:31:50] 29.
[00:31:52] What country is Stuart from?
[00:31:54] Scotland.
[00:31:56] What is Nathan's sister's name?
[00:31:58] Oh, God. Pass.
[00:32:00] What is Stuart's father's name?
[00:32:02] Pass. What is Cameron's occupation?
[00:32:04] He's an accountant. Who the fuck
[00:32:06] is Martin Brooks? Who the fuck
[00:32:08] is Martin Brooks?
[00:32:10] He was Stuart's client.
[00:32:12] Whose ID does Nathan
[00:32:14] use to get into Babylon on the first
[00:32:16] night?
[00:32:18] Oh my God, Bernard.
[00:32:20] What's your name? Bernard Thomas.
[00:32:22] Date of birth 1946.
[00:32:24] Looking good Bernard.
[00:32:26] Eight quid. Who is
[00:32:28] Romy going to marry? Oh, the
[00:32:30] uh, gosh, the foreign guy.
[00:32:32] I don't remember his name.
[00:32:36] Lance. Lance Ampelmann. Nice to meet you.
[00:32:38] What street is Stuart's series one
[00:32:40] flat on?
[00:32:42] Oh, Canal Street.
[00:32:44] What do they go back to yours?
[00:32:46] Stuart.
[00:32:48] What street is Stuart's series two flat on?
[00:32:50] Uh, maybe that one's Canal Street.
[00:32:52] Must be nice.
[00:32:54] You know living on Canal Street.
[00:32:56] What is Stuart and Romy's
[00:32:58] baby's name?
[00:33:00] Ooh.
[00:33:02] It's not Gus.
[00:33:04] It's someone I
[00:33:06] pass.
[00:33:08] Name a sex act that Nathan
[00:33:10] and his mother have in common.
[00:33:12] A sex act that they have in common?
[00:33:14] Wow.
[00:33:16] Oh, Anal. Well, I'm not trying it again.
[00:33:18] The ass thing.
[00:33:20] What pop singer did Daz claim to dress up as?
[00:33:22] Kylie. We did fancy dress.
[00:33:24] I was Britney Spears.
[00:33:26] I've done her Hollywood show bar.
[00:33:28] We'll go back to the ones you passed. What is Nathan's sister's name?
[00:33:30] Um, Molly.
[00:33:32] It's Helen I'm worried about.
[00:33:34] She's 10 years old.
[00:33:36] What is Stuart's father's name?
[00:33:38] John.
[00:33:40] What is Stuart and Romy's baby's name?
[00:33:42] Bartholomew.
[00:33:44] Okay, let me add these up here.
[00:33:48] You got eight right.
[00:33:50] Better than I expected.
[00:33:52] And seven wrong.
[00:33:54] That's passing.
[00:33:56] Okay. So the ones you missed,
[00:33:58] Stuart is from Ireland.
[00:34:00] Oh.
[00:34:02] Nathan's sister is named Helen.
[00:34:04] Stuart's father's name is Clive.
[00:34:06] Romy was going to marry Lance
[00:34:08] Amonpa.
[00:34:10] Season one, Stuart lived on Mariner's Court.
[00:34:12] In season two, they lived on Canal Street.
[00:34:14] You got that one right?
[00:34:16] Stuart and Romy's baby's name is
[00:34:18] Alfred.
[00:34:20] Oh, Alfie.
[00:34:22] Daz claimed to dress up as Britney Spears.
[00:34:24] That's bullshit.
[00:34:26] Anyway.
[00:34:28] You got those sucks out.
[00:34:30] They were close to Britney. Yes.
[00:34:32] They both did anal, not with each other.
[00:34:34] No, but I guess I remember when
[00:34:36] she just came over and she was talking about how they tried it.
[00:34:38] Okay.
[00:34:40] The next game is called Stuart versus Brian.
[00:34:42] And I've got ten quotes from
[00:34:44] either Stuart Alan Jones or Brian Kinney.
[00:34:46] I'll read them to you and you have to
[00:34:48] pick who said which one.
[00:34:50] Okay? All right. Those pens.
[00:34:52] I've got to get rid of those pens.
[00:34:54] Stuart, it's the pens.
[00:34:56] I've got to get rid of the pens. Jesus Christ.
[00:34:58] Is there no one left in the world straight?
[00:35:00] Brian. Jesus Christ.
[00:35:02] Is there no one straight left in the world?
[00:35:04] The rumor is right, but unless I'm fucking you,
[00:35:06] it is none of your business.
[00:35:08] You're never to play violin music in my presence again.
[00:35:10] Brian.
[00:35:12] And you're never to play violin music in my
[00:35:14] presence again.
[00:35:16] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.
[00:35:18] Brian.
[00:35:20] I think I'm experiencing possession withdrawal.
[00:35:22] I need to lay down.
[00:35:24] Just tell her that you take it up the ass
[00:35:26] and get out of there.
[00:35:28] Brian.
[00:35:30] Fuck's sake, just tell her you take it up the ass
[00:35:32] and get out of there.
[00:35:34] I'm a cocksucker. I'm queer.
[00:35:36] And to anyone who takes pity
[00:35:38] or offense, I say
[00:35:40] I'm a cocksucker.
[00:35:42] I'm queer.
[00:35:44] And to anyone
[00:35:46] who takes pity
[00:35:48] or offense,
[00:35:50] I say judge yourself.
[00:35:52] Lesbian letters.
[00:35:54] Can I read them?
[00:35:58] I'll say Brian.
[00:36:00] Lesbian letters.
[00:36:02] Can I read them?
[00:36:04] So, are you coming or going?
[00:36:06] Or coming and then going?
[00:36:08] Or coming and staying?
[00:36:10] Brian.
[00:36:12] So are you coming or going?
[00:36:14] Or coming and then going?
[00:36:16] Or coming
[00:36:18] and staying?
[00:36:20] My world's so fucking huge.
[00:36:22] Ooh, Brian.
[00:36:24] My world's so fucking huge!
[00:36:26] I don't believe in love.
[00:36:28] I believe in fucking.
[00:36:30] It's honest. It's efficient.
[00:36:32] You get in and out with a maximum
[00:36:34] of pleasure and a minimum
[00:36:36] of bullshit.
[00:36:38] I don't believe in love.
[00:36:40] I believe in fucking.
[00:36:42] It's honest. It's efficient.
[00:36:44] You get in and out with a maximum
[00:36:46] of pleasure and a minimum
[00:36:48] of bullshit.
[00:36:50] Okay.
[00:36:52] He didn't do so hot.
[00:36:54] Okay, I thought
[00:36:56] I was going to have like some
[00:36:58] Britishisms that I could like latch on to
[00:37:00] to get it
[00:37:02] Stuart. But you were clever.
[00:37:04] Yeah, I was careful to take this out.
[00:37:06] You were clever with these.
[00:37:08] Okay, so let's see.
[00:37:10] You got one, two, three,
[00:37:12] four, right.
[00:37:14] Out of ten.
[00:37:16] Oof, oof.
[00:37:18] So Jesus Christ, is there no one left
[00:37:20] straight in this world? That was clearly Stuart.
[00:37:22] Talking to Martin Brooks.
[00:37:24] The rumor is right, but unless
[00:37:26] I'm fucking you, it is none of your business.
[00:37:28] That was Brian talking to Gardner Vance, his new boss.
[00:37:32] Just tell her that you take it up the ass
[00:37:34] and get out of there. That was
[00:37:36] Stuart yelling at Vince when
[00:37:38] Vince was on that date with Rosalie.
[00:37:40] Okay.
[00:37:42] I'm a cocksucker, I'm a queer, and to anyone who takes pity
[00:37:44] or offense, I say judge yourself.
[00:37:46] That was season five episode one
[00:37:48] of the US series when
[00:37:50] Brian decides to
[00:37:52] reopen Babylon after it blows up.
[00:37:54] Lesbian letters, can I read them?
[00:37:56] That was Stuart in the park with Lisa.
[00:37:58] My world so fucking huge
[00:38:00] was Stuart and
[00:38:02] I don't believe in love, I believe in fucking
[00:38:04] that one's obviously Brian.
[00:38:06] So good job Matt.
[00:38:08] You know your characters.
[00:38:10] Womp, womp.
[00:38:12] I can tell you that either one of them said it.
[00:38:16] Still course folk.
[00:38:18] Be right back.
[00:38:40] Okay, finally, I just wanted
[00:38:42] to talk generally about the two shows.
[00:38:44] Something that we found with our
[00:38:46] US audience is that
[00:38:48] they are quite rabid
[00:38:50] compared to the UK audience.
[00:38:52] The comments from listeners
[00:38:54] of the UK series were more often than not
[00:38:56] giving us compliments or ideas
[00:38:58] for the podcast or
[00:39:00] even bits of information
[00:39:02] about things that we either missed
[00:39:04] or we just didn't pay attention to.
[00:39:06] The US listeners seemed out
[00:39:08] for blood sometimes because we were critiquing
[00:39:10] the show and not being
[00:39:12] fanboys.
[00:39:14] We had always envisioned this show
[00:39:16] to be
[00:39:18] how does this show hold up
[00:39:20] so many years later
[00:39:22] given that
[00:39:24] a lot has changed in the world from
[00:39:26] 2000 when this show was considered
[00:39:28] groundbreaking
[00:39:30] and edgy
[00:39:32] and all the superlatives to make it seem like
[00:39:34] it was going to be an alternative show
[00:39:36] it was on that
[00:39:38] premium cable
[00:39:40] and
[00:39:42] there was a lot of hype around it
[00:39:44] and I'm sure
[00:39:46] Patrick you can speak to it because you were
[00:39:48] watching the show when it was airing at the time
[00:39:50] Go ahead, you can say it.
[00:39:52] I wasn't going to say
[00:39:54] distinguished but okay we can go with that
[00:39:56] Thanks.
[00:39:58] There is
[00:40:00] I come from a different
[00:40:02] generation of people who
[00:40:04] still find the show
[00:40:06] it's sort of your
[00:40:08] entry into a world
[00:40:10] but it also can create
[00:40:12] a skewed view
[00:40:14] of that world.
[00:40:16] Part of that comes down to the critiquing
[00:40:18] of saying okay now in 2000
[00:40:20] probably amazing and great
[00:40:22] and no one could possibly say a bad thing
[00:40:24] about it or maybe not a bad thing
[00:40:26] but there are a lot of
[00:40:28] images, there's a lot of
[00:40:30] storylines that would
[00:40:32] not hold up today
[00:40:34] there would be
[00:40:36] a lot of discussion saying
[00:40:38] I can't believe they put this in the show
[00:40:40] and
[00:40:42] I thought we were always going to be very
[00:40:44] transparent when we talked about it
[00:40:46] and then it came out
[00:40:48] a lot more in the latter seasons
[00:40:50] which we always knew we were going to have a little
[00:40:52] trouble with because we knew the show became
[00:40:54] a little pre-chier, it did not have
[00:40:56] a blueprint
[00:40:58] of the UK series
[00:41:00] to continue to adapt
[00:41:02] and it went off on its own
[00:41:04] we know that writing rooms changed
[00:41:06] we know that directors changed
[00:41:08] Russell T. Davies no longer was
[00:41:10] really involved in it so
[00:41:12] yeah it became its own thing
[00:41:14] and we thought it suffered for it
[00:41:16] and we said so.
[00:41:18] A pretty common complaint from our US
[00:41:20] listeners was that they thought
[00:41:22] we didn't like the show
[00:41:24] but the fact is
[00:41:26] I do like it as a whole
[00:41:28] Why else would we spend 4 and a half years
[00:41:30] talking about it? I mean it was required viewing
[00:41:32] when it was airing and even afterwards
[00:41:34] but it has problems
[00:41:36] some of those problems are
[00:41:38] casual and even overt racism
[00:41:40] in some places or
[00:41:42] what somebody could objectively judge to be
[00:41:44] just very poor writing
[00:41:46] in storytelling but that doesn't mean
[00:41:48] that we don't like the show as a whole
[00:41:50] it had problems
[00:41:52] and those were the things that we wanted to talk about
[00:41:54] and a lot of people said oh well this is just
[00:41:56] a book report on the screenwriting
[00:41:58] and well yeah because
[00:42:00] story matters in any TV
[00:42:02] show and if the story is doing
[00:42:04] something that just is wrong
[00:42:06] for
[00:42:08] like society then we're going to talk about it right?
[00:42:10] And even amidst
[00:42:12] these critiques
[00:42:14] and these complaints
[00:42:16] the show endures
[00:42:18] the fact that we're able to
[00:42:20] create a podcast about it 20 years later
[00:42:22] and we see that there are fans who still
[00:42:24] watch it as they talk about it
[00:42:26] why?
[00:42:28] it does speak to its staying power
[00:42:30] so even with these critiques
[00:42:32] people are still watching the show
[00:42:34] so I mean yes you can probably
[00:42:36] say
[00:42:38] things to a podcast that decides to talk about it
[00:42:40] but we're talking about it
[00:42:42] I can't imagine doing a podcast where we just
[00:42:44] a door or something
[00:42:46] we say how wonderful it is
[00:42:48] right I can't imagine
[00:42:50] loving so much about
[00:42:52] the thumpa thumpa of this show
[00:42:54] and being
[00:42:56] just you know going on and on about it
[00:42:58] there's a couple of other Queersfolk podcasts
[00:43:00] that really are
[00:43:02] fan
[00:43:04] fan podcasts and
[00:43:06] I made a short list
[00:43:08] of some of my chief complaints about this show
[00:43:10] so let me rattle these off and then
[00:43:12] see what you think of them Matt
[00:43:14] I think that people kind of love the
[00:43:16] show because it's really all
[00:43:18] there was for a period of time
[00:43:20] there really wasn't any other
[00:43:22] scripted drama and it was just rare
[00:43:24] in the early 2000s
[00:43:26] and Queersfolk US wasn't the first
[00:43:28] gay TV show
[00:43:30] or as a lot of people
[00:43:32] just breathlessly say it's groundbreaking
[00:43:34] it did have
[00:43:36] production quality that rivaled
[00:43:38] everything else that was on cable back then
[00:43:40] except for the storytelling
[00:43:42] I mean these were like beautifully
[00:43:44] shot excellent score
[00:43:46] and so it was very watchable
[00:43:48] it took me 20 years to get to the point of where
[00:43:50] I
[00:43:52] gave it a more critical eye
[00:43:54] because I remember
[00:43:56] the first time I started watching it
[00:43:58] I had seen the UK show
[00:44:00] and I caught flu
[00:44:02] and I was in bed for like two days
[00:44:04] and a friend dropped off season one
[00:44:06] which was 23 episodes
[00:44:08] and I watched it all as I was
[00:44:10] in bed with the flu and I just could not
[00:44:12] stop watching it that was like my first
[00:44:14] binge on DVDs
[00:44:16] I mean
[00:44:18] it was important but when we look at it now
[00:44:20] as we are older
[00:44:22] gay men that have seen a lot
[00:44:24] and done a lot we often look at the
[00:44:26] show and kind of go
[00:44:28] yeah I mean
[00:44:30] when you're
[00:44:32] starving for representation
[00:44:34] you latch on to
[00:44:36] like anything so if this is the one thing
[00:44:38] that's there
[00:44:40] you're going to do what you can
[00:44:42] to lift it up because then
[00:44:44] maybe something else will come along
[00:44:46] when you then have an abundance
[00:44:48] of this kind of
[00:44:50] material
[00:44:52] you can then be like okay I'm glad this existed
[00:44:54] then to then lift up
[00:44:56] these other projects that
[00:44:58] became that took that mold
[00:45:00] and made it better or made it
[00:45:02] more timely or made something
[00:45:04] you know this is something like this was a big
[00:45:06] conversation I think people had when
[00:45:08] looking came on to HBO
[00:45:10] there was a lot of comparison because we're
[00:45:12] seeing gay men
[00:45:14] on TV
[00:45:16] right and many gay men
[00:45:18] on TV
[00:45:20] one of the chief complaints about looking
[00:45:22] people kept saying that it was boring and I'm like
[00:45:24] oh god
[00:45:26] these are and like that was something
[00:45:28] that always astonished me because I would see
[00:45:30] conversations looking
[00:45:32] was having between its characters
[00:45:34] and like I had this exact conversation
[00:45:36] two days ago with my friends I found
[00:45:38] so much
[00:45:40] of myself in that show
[00:45:42] and it was such an important time for me personally
[00:45:44] you know being someone who was newly
[00:45:46] out and I found
[00:45:48] material for me to latch on to that I'm sure
[00:45:50] people back in 2000 did with Queer's Folk
[00:45:52] plus looking had Jonathan Groff
[00:45:54] and Russell Tovey
[00:45:56] so there's that
[00:45:58] there was an overarching theme
[00:46:00] to the US show where Brian
[00:46:02] wanted Justin to
[00:46:04] be the best homosexual he can be
[00:46:06] and I always just
[00:46:08] found that super goofy
[00:46:10] it was almost like this metaphysical
[00:46:12] thing or something
[00:46:14] I just don't think it serviced the story that well
[00:46:16] it's like what do you mean you're grooming him
[00:46:18] what are you trying to turn this kid into
[00:46:20] you really don't want him to be himself
[00:46:22] what what huh
[00:46:24] yeah that again that beads into that
[00:46:26] that super ego that we talked about
[00:46:28] so much with Brian where you know
[00:46:30] because you know the first episode we see
[00:46:32] him trying to be Superman
[00:46:34] staying on top of the hospital thinking that nothing
[00:46:36] can destroy him nothing can bring him down
[00:46:38] you know what you know with Stuart's just
[00:46:40] more charming so that's why I bought into it
[00:46:42] and so it's
[00:46:44] yeah it's like let Justin go on
[00:46:46] his own path which is I think where the show eventually
[00:46:48] like got to is that he had
[00:46:50] to let Justin go and let him be
[00:46:52] his own person
[00:46:54] but that was after he had really
[00:46:56] basically turned Justin
[00:46:58] into a mini version of himself
[00:47:00] yes yeah
[00:47:02] like I would like to think if there was ever an extension
[00:47:04] of this series that we got to see
[00:47:06] Justin do his own thing
[00:47:08] I also think that copying the UK show
[00:47:10] line by line
[00:47:12] just didn't do the US show
[00:47:14] any favors maybe
[00:47:16] the US show needed to start photography
[00:47:18] really quickly so they had to work
[00:47:20] from existing stories and
[00:47:22] just do teleplays on them but
[00:47:24] those ended up being the best episodes
[00:47:26] of the entire US series
[00:47:28] after they had run their course
[00:47:30] and they ran out of material from
[00:47:32] Russell T Davies the rest of the US series
[00:47:34] felt totally different I just got to
[00:47:36] imagine that Russell Davies
[00:47:38] just can't stand the US version
[00:47:40] the
[00:47:42] writing was just off the wall
[00:47:44] and disjointed at the same time
[00:47:46] it was as if the characters
[00:47:48] never really settled into who they are
[00:47:50] and who they were going to become
[00:47:52] and just had this really
[00:47:54] slow period of problems
[00:47:56] over and over
[00:47:58] they just outright changed from episode to
[00:48:00] episode and some characters like Ben
[00:48:02] were completely neutered after those
[00:48:04] dynamite first few episodes with
[00:48:06] him his character was just
[00:48:08] a pale of what it could have been
[00:48:10] it was almost as if the US series
[00:48:12] was written by
[00:48:14] people that had never lived
[00:48:16] anything remotely close to these
[00:48:18] stories where you can tell in Russell
[00:48:20] Davies' stories that they're
[00:48:22] autobiographical Cohen and Lippman on
[00:48:24] the other hand just took way too long
[00:48:26] to establish their own stories
[00:48:28] like why bother taking UK centric
[00:48:30] characters and their UK centric
[00:48:32] stories and then trying to make them work
[00:48:34] as US characters in Pittsburgh
[00:48:36] I think the Ben example is such a great
[00:48:38] one to go with because I still think about
[00:48:40] that moment where they were going
[00:48:42] to have sex and
[00:48:44] Michael was saying like I want to
[00:48:46] but it was such a
[00:48:48] block for them both and it's
[00:48:50] still the way we would
[00:48:52] hear the sound over
[00:48:54] the credits they didn't play
[00:48:56] in music and they told us
[00:48:58] it was incredible great episode
[00:49:00] I loved that
[00:49:02] excellent episode but you're right then
[00:49:04] it's like okay now what do we do with it
[00:49:06] and they were just like well we give it a shot
[00:49:08] and then they just you know put it
[00:49:10] yeah he became an extra
[00:49:12] Michael really all of the things they could
[00:49:14] have explored especially when talking about
[00:49:16] what it means to be HIV positive
[00:49:18] but undetectable in this day
[00:49:20] and age and what it means
[00:49:22] to live with this chronic condition
[00:49:24] that's no longer a death sentence
[00:49:26] so much that could have happened
[00:49:28] and it really feels like it didn't
[00:49:30] I also thought that the guest stars
[00:49:32] that had short story arcs
[00:49:34] really kind of
[00:49:36] made the US show
[00:49:38] much more bearable in the UK show had
[00:49:40] virtually no guest stars none
[00:49:42] right because it was it was what
[00:49:44] 10 episodes 8 episodes the parts of the
[00:49:46] US show that resonated the most
[00:49:48] for me were the ones not starring the main cast
[00:49:50] like Dr. David Cameron
[00:49:52] Ethan Gold
[00:49:54] Ben Breckner's HIV story
[00:49:56] before he became regular
[00:49:58] that awful Sam Auerbach character
[00:50:00] Lita
[00:50:02] and George Schickel
[00:50:04] all those people were never mentioned
[00:50:06] once their time on the show ended
[00:50:08] we were so pissed the way Ethan Gold's
[00:50:10] storyline wrapped up the fact that it
[00:50:12] wrapped up period I mean can you imagine
[00:50:14] if he gets shown up in like season 4
[00:50:16] should have kept showing up
[00:50:18] just to be there yeah
[00:50:20] and then finally the UK series
[00:50:22] was a huge revolution ending that
[00:50:24] we can get our heads and hearts around
[00:50:26] the US series just kind of
[00:50:28] stumbled over the finish line in a way
[00:50:30] that left people kind of
[00:50:32] blue-balled the lesbians
[00:50:34] just pack up and leave Ted and Emmett never get together
[00:50:36] Justin leaves for New York to become
[00:50:38] the best homosexual he can be
[00:50:40] Brian has left in exactly the same
[00:50:42] state that we found him in when the series
[00:50:44] started it was just really weird
[00:50:46] that's something that I really really
[00:50:48] dislike not just not just in this show
[00:50:50] like in any show when if we go on
[00:50:52] this journey for so
[00:50:54] many years and we watch so many episodes
[00:50:56] and then you are going to leave
[00:50:58] your character I mean seemingly
[00:51:00] lead character Brian the same as he was
[00:51:02] why did I just do this
[00:51:04] this is one of my chief complaints
[00:51:06] with the show friends it goes on
[00:51:08] for 10 years and literally
[00:51:10] just comes back to exactly where it was
[00:51:12] the first fucking episode I mean there is
[00:51:14] something to say about stories going full circle
[00:51:16] but here it went
[00:51:18] like Brian was the only one that kind of went full circle
[00:51:21] kind of predictable I guess because
[00:51:23] he is never going to change right
[00:51:25] right exactly and what do I want
[00:51:27] I wanted to see Brian and Justin
[00:51:29] get together even as much as I hate those happy endings
[00:51:32] the happy ending of the UK version
[00:51:34] with Stuart and Vince as goofy
[00:51:36] as it was and bonkers
[00:51:38] of an ending it really worked for me
[00:51:40] it you know what it was bold
[00:51:42] groundbreaking tried something
[00:51:44] it tried something
[00:51:46] and you know it's like we are going to be
[00:51:49] outlandish with it
[00:51:51] and I went along with it and let's be honest
[00:51:53] it's depiction of
[00:51:55] US citizens at the very end is not
[00:51:57] far off
[00:51:59] alright that's all that we have for you
[00:52:01] at least for now you can check out all
[00:52:03] 96 episodes that cover both US and UK
[00:52:06] along with the season wrap up
[00:52:08] episodes at stillquaresfolk.com
[00:52:10] or wherever you get your podcasts from
[00:52:12] thank you so much for listening all this time
[00:52:14] you know especially those listeners that have been
[00:52:16] there with us since the beginning
[00:52:18] even when we took our long breaks
[00:52:20] and you know still came back
[00:52:22] and still engaged
[00:52:24] we really appreciate it and
[00:52:26] who knows where this will take us
[00:52:28] just ignore season one
[00:52:30] we kind of didn't know what we're doing
[00:52:32] no you know what
[00:52:34] see season two fall in love
[00:52:36] and then go back to season one
[00:52:38] and then just have a laugh
[00:52:40] there is a Quaresfolk reboot coming up soon
[00:52:42] and then the speciality Davey's attached to the project
[00:52:44] it takes place in the US though
[00:52:46] we haven't decided if we're going to cover it yet
[00:52:48] but you never know
[00:52:50] so keep in touch
[00:52:52] I'm intrigued one that
[00:52:54] it's going to take place in New Orleans
[00:52:56] and that their claim
[00:52:58] that it is going to be more diverse group of friends
[00:53:00] but it seems that at least according to
[00:53:02] the description it is all wrapped around a tragedy
[00:53:04] which I don't really know
[00:53:06] why we have to continue to have our queer characters come together
[00:53:08] because of a tragedy
[00:53:10] I'm sure it would be much more interesting if it was just
[00:53:12] close to the UK where it's like
[00:53:14] their life and I think that would be a lot of fun
[00:53:16] but who knows?
[00:53:18] so until we meet again, I'm Patrick Randall
[00:53:20] and I'm at Dominguez